Leveraging Thought Leadership With Peter Winick – Episode 21 – Roger Brooks

Peter Winick

Can you create content without worrying about perfection, or do you spend hours, days, and even months twitching things around because you’re worried “it’s not quite right”?

Roger Brooks, host of the podcast American Real joins Peter to talk about content creation, audience segmentation, and finding your tribe. Listen in as Roger shares his experience in podcasting and video creation, and how he’s passed his skills on to others through American Real.

Roger shares how he got over his perfectionism and committed to creating content that is exceptional and accessible – skills that will help anyone build their brand in the modern content landscape. If you are a thought leader creating content online, this is an episode that can’t be missed.

If you need a strategy to bring your thought leadership to market, Thought Leadership Leverage can assist you! Contact us for more information. In addition, we can help you implement marketing, research, and sales. Let us help you so you can devote yourself to what you do best.

Transcript

Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I’m the founder and CEO of Thought Leadership Leverage and this is our podcast, Leveraging Thought Leadership. And today my guest is Roger Brooks. Say hi, Roger.

Roger Brooks Good morning. Hello. Hey, how are you?

Peter Winick So let me give everybody just a quick introduction of who Roger is, because Roger’s an interesting guy in his own right. So he’s the founder and host of American Reel, which is a weekly video talk show and podcast that features real stories of fascinating people. In addition, Roger is a loyalty and payments professional with more than 20 years of experience. He’s the author of a book called The Power of Loyalty ten Essential Steps to Build a Successful Customer Loyalty Strategy. And overall on the sort of the day side is a loyalty strategist. And he’s been in that field for 20 years. So welcome, Roger, and I’m really excited to have you and share your journey with us a little bit today.

Roger Brooks Thanks so much, Peter. It’s great to be here.

Peter Winick Cool. So let’s just dive right into it. What is American real? When did you start it? Why did you start it? Give us the American real. The story about American real, which is about stories.

Roger Brooks Absolutely. So last, I would say a couple of years ago, actually, I sat down with a group of, I guess, like minded folks in my local area. And we were wanting to do something fun, you know, do something that was different, that had to do with content. But we didn’t know exactly what that would be. So some ideas were thrown out. Maybe we’ll do a documentary or maybe we’ll do some seminars. And then another idea was, let’s do a podcast. And I had been watching at that point London Real with Brian Rose for some time. And when someone said podcast, that really resonated with me and I, I started researching it quite a bit. And the group, which was initially about eight people, dwindled down over the weeks and I was really the only one that, that that stuck with it because it was one of those things where, you know, when it just clicks and you say, Yes, this is something I want to do. So I started researching, like I said, buying equipment, getting prepared to do a new podcast which didn’t have a name at the time. And right about the time I was getting ready to launch with a friends of mine, the Brunelleschi’s, who are our local friends and artists. Anthony Brunelli was my first guess, and just as I was getting ready to do the first episode, I received an email from Brian Rose that he was offering a course on podcasting. So it struck me and I looked into it and I signed up right away and it was an eight-week course, which was pretty grueling. His process is very fast dynamic and you have to keep up, otherwise you could get behind pretty quickly. So I did the eight-week course, which was last fall, like September, October timeframe. And during that process he has you publishing episodes. So I think before the course was over, I had about eight episodes recorded, as we say in the can you just actually launched, you know, just launch without an audience, you know, just putting it out there before I was even ready. So that was something I really learned is, you know, I’ve always tried to I’ve always been a perfectionist. And I’ve never wanted to put anything out there without being perfect or ready. But he forced us to plow through the resistance and just. Yeah, just put.

Peter Winick It out there. I love it. Let me unpack a couple of things because there’s a lot of gems in what you put out there. Roger So one is you’re curious, you’re smart, you’re a lifelong learner, but you’re committed to bringing on someone with deep expertise in this arena and go all in, right? So, hey, you could have probably figured this out on your own eventually, but you would have scraped the knee. It wouldn’t have been as efficient. But you tracked down someone that you admired. They were offering to teach you and then you do that, right? So that’s first sort of cool observation. Second one is sort of random. This is sort of like the American version of the office. So that worked out well for the author. So, you know, we can go there. But the perfectionist thing, I want to touch on that for a moment, because I see that all the time, because thought leaders, authors, speakers, you know, they’re proud of what they do. And, you know, perfectionism could have its downside of you’re never ready to put it out there until it’s just, just, just, just perfect. And, you know, this rapid content development world that we live in and putting things out that aren’t quite perfect, it doesn’t mean that it gives you an excuse to be sloppy or unprofessional or whatever. But tell me how that adjustment came for you, because it’s probably a big mine mindset shift. Like, what do you mean put it out? I don’t I’m not ready yet.

Roger Brooks For sure. And I think the word that struck me as Brian Rose was instructing was the need to become vulnerable, the need to write your ego aside and say, look, you know, yes, people are going to be watching. People are going to be looking. There’s always going to be naysayers. But unless you get in the habit of doing exactly what we’re doing right now, not being afraid to go live, not being afraid to put yourself out there, not being afraid to make a mistake because no one’s perfect. Once I was able to get past that, it really became fun and easy. So my guard down, I put my ego aside, I checked it at the door and I said, I’m going all in and I’m going to listen to this guy because obviously he’s successful. Like you said, it’s someone I looked up to and I, you know, was modeling myself, my program to do something similar. And, you know, and it just started to work.

Peter Winick When I imagine I mean, you alluded to it that it took some of the pressure off because being a perfectionist is the self-imposed pressure of holding yourself to the standard that’s probably greater than it needs to be.

Roger Brooks Totally. Totally. And now I’m actually I’m actually teaching this same course that I took for London real soon. That was about 130 people from around the world that are that are taking this course. And, you know, now I’m on the other side of it. And because I went through it, I’m able to help them. And I think that’s the whole idea is once we learn something, how do we pass that knowledge information on? So the biggest thing to your point is to get them to take the pressure off themselves. I mean, you wouldn’t believe the people that are just afraid to reach out to a guest to, you know, actually put the episode up on iTunes, you know. There’s fear. So it’s getting through that resistance and fear and taking that pressure off. And once you do, it’s, you know, it’s liberating.

Peter Winick Now, I love that. And the other piece is, which is sort of a self forcing mechanism by opting to teach it to others, you’re forcing yourself to stay on top of the game. So there’s a, you know, benefit to you, not just the 130 folks that you’re teaching that you need to be. It’s part of you. You have an obligation to them to stay top of the game and understand every new nuance because this whole space moves so quickly. Right? Whatever. Whatever is state of the art today, in six months it might seem a little dated or there might be a new, you know, wrinkle or whatever. It’s never over.

Roger Brooks Absolutely. And to that point, you know, some of the things we were learning, you know, six, eight months ago has changed. You know, it’s transformed, has progressed so that the students now have it a little bit easier than we did because of technology advancements, etc..

Peter Winick I love it. Great. So tell me, what is tell me about what is the business behind and the vision behind American Real for you? So you’ve got it out. There’s a podcast. It sounds like there’s a line of business of you teaching it to others. Give me the sort of business model, the business picture, if you will.

Roger Brooks Sure. So like most businesses, especially online businesses, you know, it’s multifaceted in that the first thing is trying to build the audience. You know, that’s as we know, it’s not easy. I am trying to build what I call my thousand true fans. So that would be a thousand people that truly believe in the American real brand. And once you start to offer product and services, those 1000 people are, you know, repeat customers.

Peter Winick Yep. Forgive me. So let me let me let me dive on that for a second. So a thousand people, you know, contrary to popular belief, not all people are created equal. Right? Who are the thousand people that you want most? Give me the profile, the client avatar of exactly what they look like, demographically psychographic, etc..

Roger Brooks Sure. And, you know, I’m sure you could appreciate we’re just we’re just working that out now. So it’s a lot of trial and error. But, you know, thankfully, you know, I’m seeing that it’s both women and men. I’m seeing that they’re there, you know, millennials and Gen Xers, you know, So it’s across the board, which is good. And the funnel, if you will, is grabbing as many people off of social media and the social media platforms. Facebook, I think, is phenomenal. It is the number one source of leads for American real because you could do so much with Facebook ads, etc. and really target who you’re trying to reach. But basically, it’s reaching those people. And if you can imagine, our weekly show is our, you know, free product, if you will. So that will always be free. It’ll always be out there. And then we’re grabbing a lot of leads from there. And then we funnel those leads into different programs. So one of the programs we have is called the American Real Live Tribe 21 Day Challenge. And with the 21 day challenge is it’s a program to allow people to go live for 60s every day for 21 straight days.

Peter Winick To go live. I mean, what it what has defined the float.

Roger Brooks Okay. It’s actually taking your phone. It’s going into our private Facebook group and going live for 60s. So there’s something about going live, especially on you know, even though there’s no one there, it’s just you. It’s in rushes for that 60s because you become very present at that moment. And there’s a natural cycle that happens during the 21 days where, you know, there’s enthusiasm and then there’s kind of a plateau and then there’s a dip where you’re like one leaving doing this. And then if you get out of that dip, there’s a jump where you go higher than the initial enthusiasm. And then we do that for two more cycles. So it takes really three. 21-day cycles to change a habit. So just by showing up every day is, you know, it’s little baby steps. So whether you’re trying to lose weight or go to the gym, you know, it’s just a same premise of doing something small each day to progress and change. And the 21-day challenge is our main lead source. So people are coming in from all over the world. They’re trying this out there. You know, it’s helps with commitment, accountability. You know, you’re able to reflect back on yourself and watch your videos and your progression. Sure. But it’s really amazing because at the end, what we’re trying to teach is for people to be transparent, because a lot of times and I’m learning this too, you know, like right now, I’m trying to be as transparent as I can with you. So maybe other people that are listening could also try to do the same. It’s very difficult.

Peter Winick So I would imagine if we were to reconnect in six months, the answer to the question of, you know, who’s your target market would probably have evolved or tweaked a little bit, right? So you’re in a bit of an experimental phase, it seems like, and there’s a universality to it, which is a blessing and a curse. And ultimately, I think what will happen is the market will vote with its hands and its dollars and its clicks, and all those things will say, wow, the people that this really rocks the most with are, you know, the women entrepreneurs or millennials that are in leadership role, whatever it is, right? It’ll just sort of bubble up. What are the mechanisms that you have in place to really listen hard for that to but to spot those trends for your own benefit of the business?

Roger Brooks Yeah, it’s interesting, you know, because I’m trying to analyze that. And of course we have the data, you know. Right. That we could gather. But the one thing and I think a lot of people in the business world know this is we’re really getting good now about collecting name and email address to be able to communicate God. So by doing that, we’re able to reach people more directly. And therefore, you know, now I’m starting to see more trends of the demo. And you know, it’s actually pretty heavily women, which I didn’t expect. You know, I thought it would be more men, but it’s more of a skew of about 60 or closer to 70% women that are gravitating toward this, you know, at least this 21-day challenge. And I would say age range is probably, you know, mid 30s up to mid-fifties got out. Right.

Peter Winick So maybe I’m scaring maybe you’re scaring the guys away with that transparency thing, right. That jump out of a plane or do a tough mudder or modern man no problem. But trends like talk about stuff.

Roger Brooks yeah. And what’s also interesting is having people from other countries and cultures join. Right.

Peter Winick That’s interesting.

Roger Brooks Interesting to see. And what’s happening is we’re forming, you know, as they call a tribe. It’s true. We’re forming a community of people and we have these weekly Zoom calls where everyone gets on together and they could see each other and interact and we could talk about what’s happening next. And it’s just really gratifying to see. You know, when you start something from nothing for it to start to form in your right. We’re in that process right now. So if we look three months, six months down the road, I’m sure, you know, our conversation will be a little bit different because it is evolving.

Peter Winick Got it. What else do you see in the in the short and mid-term horizon in terms of derivative offerings, things that you’re going to do to grow the lead channel? Give me a sense of what the next 3 to 6 months may look like.

Roger Brooks Sure. No, great question. And we’re working on things such as I want to do a competitive product to Ted Talk. So we’re going to call them. We’re going to call them real talks. So we will again, this is the whole premise is to give people a voice and let them share their story because everyone is unique and everyone has something to offer. So we’ll have a competitive product, the Ted talks where people will have a 15 to 20 minute speech and then we will give them the platform on American Real to, you know, get that out to the world. So that’s one that’s one product. We’re going to teach people how to podcast exactly what we’re doing right now. You know, it’s as you found out and as I found out, this is a great way to get content out to the world about your niche, about your specialty. So I to your point earlier, I want to pass this information and knowledge on to as many people as I can so they could start their podcast to become part of their brand.

Peter Winick So, well, let me give you an opportunity to do that a little bit now. So, so in the podcast world right there, there’s lots of different overarching thoughts what you need to do. Keys to success, etc.. Give me I’ll tell you mine and then I more interested in yours. So for me, the launching of the podcast was a way to have conversations with people that I admire, that are thoughtful, that are doing things that I think that my client base and people that look like my clients and prospects and others that may be interested in working with us over time would benefit from hearing because there’s only so much of me and my team they want to hear. So how can I sort of aggregate thought leaders from all over the planet doing different things, be they academics, be they CEOs, be they somebody watching a book or whatever, and provide value through the lens of what the title of the podcast is, which is really about the business side of thought leadership. So that’s why we launched it. And quite frankly, it’s been easier than I thought. You know, the technology, when we looked into it two years ago, was painful. Now, you know, I said to my team, I’m not that sharp. I need to be able I can talk. But the tech side of it, I just want to be able to push a button and then make magic happen and we’re able to do that. But give me, you know, speak to the audience out there, Roger, and say, here’s things to not do. And here’s a couple of things that you absolutely should do when sort of venturing into podcast world.

Roger Brooks Yeah. Look, I think I think first and foremost, you have to be prepared to, to what you’re getting into and have that level of commitment to continue to publish so that if you don’t have that commitment then it’s like anything you don’t want to start and stop a podcast. That is the worst thing you could do because people start to rely on you releases. So like we release every Sunday. Yeah. And I don’t care if I’m on vacation or if I’m sick or whatever. We have to get that episode out on Sunday and it’s good for you personally to have those goals, I think to, to, you know, to keep you motivated to every single week or every single month, however, you know, whatever your duration is.

Peter Winick And that’s not always so easy, right? So it’s not so easy because you have, you know, life. Right? And it’s also not so easy because, you know, this is not a get rich quick business or an overnight success business or, you know, you could be three months into this thing. Is there any return on this? Is there any you know, what have I gotten out of this? You got to keep going. So I love the keep grinding. I remember years ago when I went my blog probably ten years ago, a good friend of mine that I admired said, you know, don’t stop until you’ve done one, regardless of the outcome. And I’m like, Got it right now.

Roger Brooks And it’s great advice because, you know, and that’s what Brian Rose taught us, is that really you’re not even really noticed until you get to episode 100. Yeah. And, and, you know, it’s, it’s hard to do. So I’m in I’m in episode like 35 right now and you know, 100 still pretty far you know a ways away so it’s that but I think if you have the mindset that once you have the bigger picture in mind of where you’re going, then that helps you go. That helps me go week to week. So I would say, first of all, that commitment definitely to your point about technology and this is what I want to teach people too, to try to make it. And it is easier today than it was two years ago. But the American real platform, when you come in and take a course on how to podcast, we will have that all set up. For you. So. Great. Yeah. We’ll give you the options of the technology you want to use, you know? Sure. You know, brands of microphones. Yeah. If you video, you know how to set all that up. So definitely the tech in getting on iTunes and, you know, just trying to automate as much of that process as you can because right now, like you and I do, you know, we have a template. So once it’s set up and your template is there, then the real work and the concentration gets into, okay, the interviewing skills, what questions you want to ask, the type of guests you want to bring on, you know, and all the important business aspects. But you have to get your, your base set up.

Peter Winick Yeah. And I would argue if you’re actually an author, a thought leader or speaker with something to say, you shouldn’t be figuring out how to do post-production of audio files. There’s probably better things to do with your time.

Roger Brooks Absolutely. And I found you know, I found a gentleman, Michael Leonard. He’s he works at a college up in Rochester, New York, and he helps me with my post-production. And it’s wonderful, you know, because to your point, I don’t want to I don’t want to be I don’t enjoy it. And I need to be spending my time on other things. So the people out there, of course, whether they’re volunteer or you pay them, that will be part of your team and, you know, could take away some of those pain points that that we all endure.

Peter Winick Excellent. What else might you suggest in terms of maybe what not to do? Give me give me three things to do to ensure that I will be an absolute failure in the podcast world. Yeah, I.

Roger Brooks Think the first thing is, you know, don’t feel like you have to get celebrity guests. You know, you may have your top say 25 that that you know you’ll contact and try to get those people on and but if they don’t respond right away you know it may take it may take ten emails or ten phone call or a year of time to land the guy that you really want. But there’s so many good people in different fields, whether it’s someone who wrote a good book, you know, who will do just about anything to get their message out there if they just wrote a book or if they just, you know, put out a new product because, you know, like us, they’re trying to get their branding out there. So. Well, just.

Peter Winick On that point, Roger, one of the things that I have found that’s interesting is, folks that might be hard to get to because they’re super busy, their name brands and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah are really easy to get to during these short windows. And when they’re focused on a book launch or something like that. So, you know, if you’re if you know, you know, you’re following author X, Y, Z, take a look at when their next book is coming out on Amazon. And guess what? You hit them up a month before that. There’s going to be a 6 to 8 week period where they’re in book launch mode where, you know, in some instances they’ll you know, they’ll talk to two turtles, right? Just, you know.

Roger Brooks The other gem that I’ve that I stumbled upon is when you go to a conference. Look at the speakers. Absolutely. You may have a, you know, A-list speakers coming in if you contact them in advance or contact the staff of the of the conference. Set it up while they’re there. You know, they’re going to have an extra half hour to come and sit with you and get their message out there. So that’s a huge opportunity to tap into something that’s already set up.

Peter Winick Yeah, I just saw that, a great example of that. A couple of months ago I was invited to a Forbes books, had an author conference and they have a Forbes Books podcast. So they were set up there and I was like, you know, in two days they were able to grab 40 or 50 pretty, pretty nice authors, which is a really effective use of everybody’s time, right? Everybody just, you know, go into that room over there for 20 minutes. Sure. No problem here anyway. And for the podcast. So that was awesome. Productivity.

Roger Brooks Right. Right. And even in your local area, whether it’s a chamber event and just being aware of what’s going all the events in your local community, there’s so many good people. You obviously have to do the work. And the reason to make that happen.

Peter Winick Got it. Anything else you’d want to share? Yeah. I think, you know.

Roger Brooks It’s as far as podcasting is concerned, it’s, you know, it’s it it’s something you have to be committed to, as I said. And but at the same time, it it’s, it’s so gratifying to sit down with someone and create a new piece of content. It’s an easy part that will live forever. So you are doing the guest just as much service as you’re doing, you know, to yourself and your brand of it. So it’s a two way street, you know, and I’m sure you’ve heard it, Peter, I’ve heard it many times that when you when you take the time like this and spend time with a person to let them get their IP out there, you know, it may be the best interview they ever had. So that’s my mindset going into it, is I want whether I’m this I’m on this side of it or on the other side, I want it to be the best piece of content that that’s ever been done. You know, at that moment. So it’s very gratifying and I highly encourage people to start their own podcast if it’s something that they’re interested in.

Peter Winick Well, I appreciate the candor. I appreciate the transparency and looking forward to see how it continues to unfold for you. Tell folks how do they find you? How can they get in touch with you to learn about podcasting or more about American real? Where do they find you?

Roger Brooks Sure. So the easiest way is to go to our website, American real.tv, and you can contact us there. Of course, we have a YouTube channel, American Real TV. We have a Facebook page, American Real. And if you just do a Google search for American real, I’m sure you’ll find.

Peter Winick There’s a theme here.

Roger Brooks Yeah my email is Roger at American real.tv so I’m very accessible would love to talk to anyone in your audience about how we might be able to help them.

Peter Winick Great. I appreciate your time today. And that was packed full, chock full of interesting information with a heavy emphasis on podcasting, which is really good because a lot of people are sort of struggling with the right way to do that and all that. So I appreciate your time today and thank you so much for sharing.

Roger Brooks Peter, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you.

Peter Winick To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at Thought Leadership Leverage dot com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at Peter at Thought Leadership Leverage dot com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.