Trust and Inspire with Thought Leadership | Stephen M.R. Covey

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Changing how leadership looks and feels in the workplace.

An interview with Stephen M.R. Covey that originally aired on April 20th, 2022, as part of our Leveraging Thought Leadership Live series on LinkedIn.

Three Key Takeaways:

• Having a culture of trust will help you attract and retain talent.
• Build trust at scale means being the model for that behavior both in private and publicly. Once others see it you become an example others can replicate.
• Do not attempt to separate the principle of your message from the practice of it. Doing so can cause your message to come off as fake or disingenuous.

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If you need a strategy to bring your thought leadership to market, Thought Leadership Leverage can assist you! Contact us for more information. In addition, we can help you implement marketing, research, and sales. Let us help you so you can devote yourself to what you do best.

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Transcript

Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I’m the founder and CEO of Thought Leadership Leverage and you’re joining us on the LinkedIn Live version of our podcast here at Leveraging Thought Leadership. And today, I’m so excited for today. I’ve got an amazing, amazing guest that needs no introduction, but I’ll give them a short one anyway. So Stephen M. R. Covey, who was the that is the bestselling author of Speed of Trust, and more recently, as of hours ago now, a Wall Street and Wall Street Journal bestselling author of his new book, Trust & Inspire, which is fantastic and I’m super geeked out, but I’ve got my autographed copy because that geeks me out. And he’s also the CEO has been the CEO of Covey Leadership, Practice Lead at Covey under the Speed of Trust. We can go on and on about his accomplishments and attributes, but I’d rather just dive in.

Peter Winick So, we’re going to mix up the format a little bit here. And before we get into some of the business objectives and the typical things that I talk about, look, let’s just dive into the book. Give us a quick overview of what is Trust & Inspire, and why it’s so critical at this moment, just the way the timing of where we are today.

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you, Peter. Always great to be with you.

Peter Winick My pleasure.

Stephen M.R. Covey And the premise is this, is that the world has changed all around us. We all know this, and yet our style of leadership hasn’t kept pace it. We’re still operating too much under a dated antiquated model you might call “command and control.” We just become better at it. More advanced, more sophisticated, more enlightened in our command and control. But we’re still operating too much out of out of out of that archaic model in a changing world. And so we need to become relevant in this new world of work with all of these changes that have gone on in the marketplace, the changes in technology, disruption, the changes in the workplace, you know, work from home, work from anywhere remote work, hybrid work, intensely flexible work with so much diversity in the workforce, multiple generations, different expectations. And people today have choices and options like never before. So all of these changes kind of created a new reality. I think that that in order for companies to succeed today, they’ve got to build a high trust culture that inspires so they can attract retain the best people. I mean, right now we’ve got the great, you know, the great resignation going on or the great reshuffling examination, whatever you might call it, where it’s hard to keep people. And nothing is attractor better than a high trust culture that inspires people. And so that’s vital today. And also we second that’s the first imperative I call that “win in the workplace”.

Peter Winick Yep.

Stephen M.R. Covey The second imperative is to win in the marketplace by collaborating and innovating so we stay relevant in a changing world. And here’s the thing. In today’s environment, you can’t command and control your way to a great culture that inspires, and you can’t control your way to collaboration. Innovation just doesn’t work anymore, as if it ever really did. And so I’m trying to say there’s a new way to lead in this new world, and I’m trying to name it and describe it as trust and inspire.

Peter Winick And what I like about what I mean is several things that I like about it. But, you know, if we sort of compare speed of trust, which is really about this capability of developing trust, that it didn’t need to be a function of time, of a relationship, that there were actual things that you could do, anyone could do. So I would call that sort of a capability development. And it was a little bit of an a-ha because we always thought trust was like charisma or whatever when you broke it down from capability. This is clearly a leadership, right? This is about those of us of a certain age like us, you know, came up in a world where we were probably brought up in a command and control world professionally, and you replicate what you see and what it works. And now the world has changed on us. And even when we were coming up, it probably wasn’t the best approach because that comes from the factory. And if we go back in history to manufacturing and all that sort of stuff, but it was what everybody did. So there’s a lot of leaders that sort of rejigger their toolbox, if you will, to say, oh, you know, I was pretty good at this command and control thing.

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah.

Peter Winick People listened when I snapped. And now there’s a new thing.

Peter Winick I want to throw out a couple of questions that people have written in prior to this that I thought would be interesting. So one question that I got that I was thinking a lot about is how do leaders build trust at scale? Right. Those leaders can’t. If I’m leading a 10,000 person organization, statistically, I mean, it’s just that one on one peace. It’s not a function of what I want. So how do I do? How do I inspire, how do I trust and inspire at scale? As a leader?

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah, it’s a great question. So if you think about it, the work that we do with the one, how we build trust with the one can actually have an effect on the many as it becomes a model that can get replicated, that people can see, and especially with how we build trust with the one who’s hard to build trust with and demonstrate how we could build it with the many people start being aware of it. And so my main answer would be, if you always do trust in the creation of trust as an inside out process, right know, we always look in the mirror, we start with ourselves. Do I trust myself? Do I give to my team a leader who they can trust? And then I go first. So I model the behavior as best I can privately, one on one, but also publicly. I’m trying to model the behavior. I’m trying to go first around the behavior that I am hoping that we see in our team and our culture rather than wait another job. I feel like we need more transparency. I believe that with transparency we need more respect. I laid out by demonstrating respect to everyone, I laid out my clarifying expectations. I laid out by listening first and modeling that I laid out by even extending trust. So modeling and the leader goes first and you have to do it privately one on one as you build that trust. But you also do it as best you can publicly. But even as you build it privately, word gets out that, you know, our leader is this is how he does. Yeah. What he did with me. And as people start to say, gosh, if he’s this way with, you know, with leaders, this way with this person, maybe he would be that way with me, too. And they start to see that when they see kind of an alignment, a congruence, an authenticity between who you are in private, one on one, and who you are in public, they start to say, Peter’s a person I can trust, and that reputation precedes you and begins to help you build trust faster.

Peter Winick Yeah, well, and that public and private is a little bit different today, given that our sort of public personas could be a function of social media and all these other things. It’s not just out and about. I mean, public is a broader concept today. So a couple other questions I want to throw out your one. One is this is an interesting one. You know, what about on the other side of this? What do you do when you’ve been burned? How do you allow yourself to trust again? Because 99.9% of people are good people most of the time. Yet we can all recall an experience where we’ve been taken advantage of our trust, whatever the case is. How do you how do you move forward from that?

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah, I think it’s a great question because we’ve all had it. We’ve all been burned. I’ve been burned, too. So the key insight is still that the fact that you can’t trust one to find how you view everybody else. And I love that most people can be trusted, but not everyone. And but if you allow the fact that you can’t trust them to become your paradigm for how you view others, then you’ll never want to even see the possibilities or the opportunities they’ll pass you by. You won’t build that trust. And so I do acknowledge there is a risk. Interesting people. I know that. You know that. Our viewers know that. Also a risk in not trusting people. And I think not trusting people can often be the greater risk. And so be smart about it. Try to use good judgment. If someone has burned you, then why not? And they consistently burn you. It probably wouldn’t  be smart to trust that person.

Peter Winick Well, so, stay there for a minute because it’s okay to not to continue to extend trust to someone who has violated your trust, where it’s detrimental to you long term and it cost actually more is to extrapolate from that. Well, I can no longer trust anyone or people like that or whatever the case may be that’s really necessary.

Stephen M.R. Covey So maybe it’s not smart to trust this person, but it would be equally and smarter and even worse to have that that that I can’t trust this one. Now, if that’s how I view everybody else.

Peter Winick Right.

Stephen M.R. Covey I’ll give you a quick illustration of this. Warren Buffett, the great investor and operator, you know, and this was a decade plus ago when it when everyone was reporting to him. So he did acquired some 77 companies. He got 77 CEOs of these acquired companies reporting to him. How many? 77 people. You know, you got to have trust, right? Right. Well, he was burned by one of them who basically took advantage of a situation, did some frontloading, you know, from running the thing it’s called recommended a company that he by that he had an interest and didn’t disclose it. It wasn’t technically illegal, but it was unethical. So here’s what happened, though. So Warren has 77 direct reports. One of them violated his trust. He ended up parting ways with that person, let them go. But what it didn’t do was allow that one and being burned defined how he treated the other 76. He stayed trusting that the other 76 and the danger would have been if he would have allowed that one experience to say, you know what, make these other ones and maybe they might burn me too, because yeah, it can happen. But if you have good expectations and accountability to the trust being given, most people will rise to the occasion and put themselves worthy. So either way there’s a risk. I think the greater risk is when we don’t trust and think that’s our biggest challenge today. We’re not trusting enough as leaders.

Peter Winick Yep. So next which I’ve got that I thought was kind of an interesting one. What is the role of trust and inspire in thought leadership? Right. Because as a thought leader, people are you a leader of sorts. And therefore, I would assume you can extrapolate that the principles here as a thought leader would apply to anyone in the thought leadership space that you can also trust and inspires a thought. What’s your what are your thoughts on that, if you thought about that?

Stephen M.R. Covey I have, yeah. I think that when I was writing this book, there’d be several times as I worked on the editor, where we would come back to this question: Do I trust my reader? Do I trust the reader to both get the answer. But also there were times where I wanted to be a little bit didactic and really to say, Here’s the main point. Take this out. I was I was doing it.

Peter Winick Underline it. Right, right.

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah. I was doing little brackets. I was basically doing the underlining for them. And then I stopped and I said, Wait a minute. What if they take away something completely different? Why don’t I trust my reader? If they do what I think they should be underlining. Let them underline it themselves. So value a more than if I kind of bracket it in a way that says this is what you’re supposed to be underlining. Trust, the trust of the reader. And so even the way I wrote it, I said, I’m going to trust my reader and hopefully inspire the reader with insights and with ideas that they can apply and find to be a value. So that was always a mindset of, you know, as an author, I was always trying to say, look, I want this to be insightful and I want this to be also readable and relatable and actionable, and I trust my reader to get it. I think another area, Peter, as well is that the fact that I’m putting this out there. In a sense. I’m saying, look, most people are good and responsible and someone might take some of these ideas and even themselves. But no one owns an idea.

Peter Winick Right, right, right.

Stephen M.R. Covey You right on a particular expression of an idea or how you might say it. But I choose to kind of have an abundance mentality believing that most people are good and most people would give credit or attribution, and there might be a few that don’t. But I’ve seen some people so afraid to share their thought leadership out of fear of what if someone takes advantage and steals it, that that they don’t put it out there. Now, again, I think, I think that was hard –

Peter Winick I think that was an old school way of thinking of, well, if I put it all out there and this is a good segue, but if I put it all out there, which you do in the book, because when I first read about the book before I read it, I’m like, okay, this might be abstract, this might be theoretical, whatever. It is very, very applicable because that’s an abstract concept, if you will. But it’s very, very concrete, right? It’s not some high-level stuff. But my point is, people said, well, you know, if I if I spent, whatever, 25, 30 bucks or whatever on the book, it’s all there. What the heck did they need before? And I think that the concept of, you know, Covey, and Franklin Covey is proof in the pudding that the more you put out, the better it is. There are people that will read the book and take the book and everything’s in there and don’t need any help. And that’s okay, right? That’s great. Because they never would have been your client on the on the business side of the house anyway. And they got value from the book and they’re spreading your ideas and benefiting from it. That’s great. But to move that into a good place, it’s a segue into sort of the business side of this. What is how do you envision I’m sure you put a lot of effort into this person inspired getting out into organizations at scale. What are the ways that folks can consume this in mass at large organizations to get these ideas out?

Stephen M.R. Covey Yeah. Well, first of all, I’ll come back to the idea that really I really feel strongly and it’s conveyed in this book that the way that the way we’re going to solve our problems and our challenges today is we got to unleash the greatness inside of our people. At least the potential and command and control won’t get it out. Press, inspire, can and will. And that’s so that’s needed. Every organization needs this. Industries need this. Society needs this. We’re operating. You know, for all our progress, we’re still operating in a primarily command and control world. And it’s just me. We’re more sophisticated, more enlightened with it. And so we need this. And that belief matters because, you know, this is all about trying to elevate people, elevate society. And therefore, I want to get this out there and I want these ideas to become a useful and workable alternative to the command and control that we know doesn’t work where we move to. I want it to be trust and inspire. And the way we’ll do that is to get it out there not only by name, but by description. But also we need models of it. We need mentors of it. We need people that are doing this. They’re saying there’s a better way to lead and inspire now. And they use the language, they use the tools, they’re applying it. So that’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to we’re trying to give leaders and organizations a better way to lead in our new world of work that’s relevant for our time, stress and inspire. And so in doing this, we’re creating tools, we have processes, and of course, you can always speak about it. You know, the very first step is writing about it that codifies it, that captures it, putting it down and is a great way to do it. And most of us have passed that threshold of recognizing this is actually going to be good for our brand and our right to put it out there. And we’ll get a lot more business in the long run this way in the very little bit of people that maybe don’t hire us because they got it in the book, they wouldn’t have hired us anyway.

Peter Winick Exactly.

Stephen M.R. Covey So you codify it with a book, but then you can develop speaking around it,.

Peter Winick Yup.

Stephen M.R. Covey Coaching around it, consulting around it, tools, processes, measurement, tools of how trust and inspire am I, as a leader, and how trust and inspire is our culture and measure that.

Peter Winick And each of those derivatives. It’s the same idea, right? So I’ve seen the back and some of the other things, each of those. Use case has a different target market has a different price point. Right. And I think that’s the robustness of the suite of offerings is the way to go to market to get these ideas out. Because the reality is, for better or worse, we can debate know even though this book is a best seller right as of our oh that is that is one way that people consume information and it’s not the dominant way anymore. Right. So one big company that embraces this could really push this out to 100, 400, 500,000 people in a very, very different way than selling 20,000 books or 50,000 books or 100,000 books. Can you have that? Both.

Stephen M.R. Covey Absolutely. And you want you want to sell the books, but you also really want to have this content reach people where they’re at. And not everyone consumes a book. And also, that may not be the most effective way to learn the material compared to another way. Sure, an online learning experience through a process, through a learning map, through a learning journey. Through a workshop. Through a seminar presentation.

Peter Winick Yup.

Stephen M.R. Covey You go through all the combinations of the above and it’s often combinations. And this has happened where where? You know, sometimes we’ve started right at the top where I’m working with the CEO and we want to build a trust and inspire culture. And so we start with the CEO and his or her team, and they take it to their team, they take it to their team, and ultimately it’s been cascaded. That’s happened right on more than one occasion where we have different modalities, different ways that people can access the content, the ideas and apply it in their world for their different roles. And it would be different for a senior executive than it would be a frontline worker. But the idea would be, if you’ve got content that applies, that’s based on principles, it applies at all levels and not all content, it applies at all levels. I might just be for sure that’s okay. That you just want to make it accessible, tangible is that goal and there’s more than one right answer to how you would do that. And so different modalities, different audiences, different length of time, different implementation, application,.

Peter Winick Yup.

Stephen M.R. Covey The possibilities are extraordinary. But the whole idea would be to say, look, we can help your team, we can help your organization to the degree you want, build this kind of trust, inspire culture trust, inspire team, inspire leaders. And we have tools and processes and methodologies at every level and also basic that works for you and your team and your culture. Yeah. So it’s really exciting because how it is is then you can have impact at scale and so on and go beyond the book. The book alone will be really enough for some people where all they need is a chair, they can run with it. And, and like you say in this book, I tried to make this book really practical, actionable and for others that the book’s nice and they want a hands on experience or process or coaching. And that’s how they learn their culture.

Peter Winick Yeah, exactly.

Stephen M.R. Covey And you can, you know, create it once and then sell it many, many ways.

Peter Winick If you’re enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you’d like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave us a review and share it with your friends were available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps as well as at ThoughtLeadershipLeverage.com/podcasts.

Peter Winick I want to go back to something that you touched on that I think is important that not a lot of authors and thought leaders necessarily think about. But one of the purposes like benefits of writing a book is it’s a forcing mechanism to codify your thinking, because my guess would be we were talking before we went on air. You know, you’ve been working on this for six years, so these ideas have been swimming around in your head for a long, long time and you have different concepts of whatever. And we don’t have six years worth of your notes and everything. I’m sure this is probably ten x the amount of stuff that that was in your mind that made it to the book, it forced you to codify it so that every word matter, every diagram matter, and every illustration in there mattered. What is the best way to go? This, and I’m sure you probably wrestled with, is this the best way to talk about this or this way or this way? Right. And that codification piece. How does that resonate?

Stephen M.R. Covey Well, Peter, you’re right on. That’s the power of trying to do a book. And for that matter is even when you give a speech, you might have ideas running around and you’ve got to give a speech, you’ll have some action. You’ve got to really convey it, condense it, codify it. And in a book is especially this way. So here’s a quote I’ll give that is so useful. It’s Oliver Wendell Holmes. He said, I, you know, he’s an Englishman, so, you know, use this word. I wouldn’t give a fig for the simplicity on the near side of complexity. But I would give my life for the simplicity and the far side of complexity. So here’s how in German that initially, you know, you’re all over the map. You might be simplistic and simplistic with your simple ideas, but it’s not robust. You haven’t waded through the complexity realities of life. And you’ve got to do that. When you when you when you write a book, you realize, I’ve got to answer these realities and these questions. And so you’ve got to wait. So if you just write the book without waiting through that, it will be simplistic.

Peter Winick Right, which is not the same as simple, right?

Stephen M.R. Covey It’s not the same as simple. They’ll be simplistic and they’ll be seen as trite and a platitude, not relevant. But if you wade through the complexity, the danger is you can get trapped in the complexity and many of it and you come out with a book. It’s know all over the map because you haven’t gotten through the complexity. What you want to do is get to the you want to go through the complexity and come out on the other side of having gone through the complexity with a simplicity, a simple, elegant solution, because then it’s robust and it can be profound because it’s paid the price. And that’s what writing a book causes you to do is, you know as well, it won’t sell in the long run because it won’t add value. But a simple, simple and profound book can and will sell because it’s paid. The price is weighted through the simplicity. And so for is buyer through all of that complexity you come out and sweat is a presence by a leader is three things simple you model, you trust and you inspire. Modeling is who we are, trusting is how we lead, and inspiring is connecting to why it matters.

Peter Winick And there’s a depth and a thoughtfulness to each of those that you put out there. And I guarantee you, you’ve been on sort of book mode. You’ve had to answer that question lots and lots of times. Yes. It’s not even a second thought. There’s only look, it’s only those three. It will always be those. That’s the way it is. Right. But there’s a depth to those. Right. When you apply a situation or where is this organization today? How do we go from here to there? Whatever. Same simple but not simplistic framework that could unleash the power of pretty deep issues.

Stephen M.R. Covey Absolutely. And process of writing. I waited to the complexity came out with the simplicity. And again, what I am also I just want to add this, that this book is not trying to be the end all, be all of leadership is trying to focus on leadership style, the style of leadership that’s going to work today because there’s other elements of leadership this is not addressing, but this is saying the struggle is to be a trusting, inspire leader, not a command and control leader. So just as a model you trust, you inspire.

Peter Winick I want to segue for a couple of minutes that we we’ve got left into. Obviously, when this first came into your mind, it was in a pre-COVID world. Remember those days? Those days we roamed the earth like free range chickens or whatever. But there’s something so much more relevant in this sort of remote work over this this time of change and flux and whatever that we’re living with. So, again, you know, we talked about earlier one of the mantras of sort of maybe it wasn’t or is enlightened command and control you talk about is management. By walking around, let them see you go out among the people, be there, whatever. Well, if walking around means you can’t show up in my home office right now. So how do you how do you trust and inspire in a world where the default mode isn’t? We’re all in this place Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 or whatever that is. How do you how do you do that?

Stephen M.R. Covey The principle is, is connection. How you connect is going to look different, feel different and be different in different modalities, different contexts, you know, your remote work. So the hybrid work environment is it on site combinations know flexible but you can do those three stewardship you can model.

Peter Winick Yup.

Stephen M.R. Covey You can trust and be trusting, and you can inspire by connecting with people through caring and belonging. And it could be as simple as this. I’ve seen some leaders in Zoom calls or teams calls where they they’re connecting with their team and then they’re saying in advance they’ve asked someone to stay on afterwards.

Peter Winick Right.

Stephen M.R. Covey A private message them during the things they can you stay on. Then the meeting ends and they stay on. They say, hey, just want to check with you, see how you’re doing, how things are going. And you just when they see.

Peter Winick When you look at that. So, yes. So and I would call that sort of a tool or a tactic. And I think what happens today, unfortunately, is many people are looking for the hammer. What’s the easy way for me to be an inspiring leader? And I would argue and I want to put words about there isn’t an easy way. It’s a principle based process and methodology and you can’t fake it. Now, there are some like that tip. Can you stay on for a moment? Just want to check in like an agenda list. Check in. Great put. If all you do that is that without an understanding and an application on a daily basis of the principles. Is it not true.

Stephen M.R. Covey Precisely that the principle matters more the principles carrying the idea. There are a lot of practices. If you separate the practice from the principal, then it could be seen as manipulation. It could be seen as they don’t really care. He just trying to go through the motions. But when they feel like you care and then you also reinforce that with things that you do and steps and actions that accelerates the building of trust in a virtual world. And that’s where it’s more difficult because they see it’s like the iceberg. The greater mass of the iceberg is what matters. That’s the principal, right? The practice is the tip of the iceberg. And you don’t you don’t want to separate the two. You want to keep them together. And in the long run, who you are, what comes through more clearly than some technique you use, and a lot of it. But the technique can be helpful to help you manifest and express and connect in ways that are useful. But it always starts with that inside out character-based approach. And certainly, that’s the work that I do is based upon that and trust inspire. You can’t fake it. That’s how I view people, that there’s greatness inside of them. And my job as a leader, as a leader is unleashing their potential not to try to contain them. And that’s not to think that’s something I believe and want to do. So that’s the idea.

Peter Winick Yep. So as we as we wrap now, first run, don’t walk, get the book. That’s not you. You’ve got it, you’ve read it, but everybody else get the book. Any final thoughts? Words. I just want to thank you for not just this book, for consistently putting out high quality, amazing work into the universe that benefits so, so many of us. So, thank you for that.

Stephen M.R. Covey Well, wonderful. Thank you, Peter. Let me just say two thoughts. First, I appreciate you and the work that you do to encourage thought leaders to make a difference. The whole idea of Thought Leadership Leverage is all about saying leverage is impact when you can have more impact. And so, yes, you can also build a business model around it that can be sustainable so that you can have more impact yet again. Now, because we adopted the mantra, I think I shared this in our earlier call, well, there’s no margin, there’s no mission. And so you’re really mission driven as a thought leader to be able to scale that, to be able to build a business model that works will enable you to reach more people with your mission and to have a greater impact at scale and have you know and feel like your purpose is being better met. And so that’s and you’re playing a great role in that because many times as it’s thought leaders, we’re so we’re so altruistic. We, we, we so much want to make a difference.

Peter Winick Right.

Stephen M.R. Covey We often don’t focus enough on the business model and the business the thought leadership, which is also important so that we can have the mission and the purpose of thought leadership and you help bridge that gap, Peter. So I commend you for that.

Peter Winick Thank you so much.

Stephen M.R. Covey And the second thing would be that I really believe, I really hope that our viewers will be inspired by this book, because I think you’re going to find that this is so useful, so practical for where we are today. And I didn’t anticipate the pandemic when I started writing this, but it just accelerated everything I was talking about right now.

Peter Winick Sure.

Stephen M.R. Covey And we need this kind of leadership in our world. We all want it. I mean, don’t we all want to be inspired and think about someone who has that kind of leader for you and your life, for that kind of person, for you. You remember that person and you can remember everything about them and what they did for you. What if we could become that kind of person for others? And imagine if we could do this at scale and we could literally impact companies and industries and ultimately even a society, and we can’t get ahead of ourselves because it’s done one person at a time. But this is trying to describe name and codify the kind of leadership that that was going to work today, that is relevant today that we all want today trust and inspire. And we can become that kind of leader and we can help others become it too. And in the process, I think we can elevate our world. That’s my goal with this, is that to build a better world through a better way to lead, in a new world of trust and inspire.

Peter Winick Well, thank you. Thank you again. Thanks. Thanks for coming in today. I appreciate it.

Stephen M.R. Covey Thank you. So always great to be with you, Peter. Thanks my, friend, and thanks to our viewers.

Peter Winick To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at ThoughtLeadershipLeverage.com to reach me directly. Feel free to email me at Peter at ThoughtLeadershipLeverage.com and please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.