Leveraging Thought Leadership With Peter Winick – Episode 40 – Shane Green

Peter Winick

Peter Winick speaks with Shane Green

Companies in the U.S. will spend almost a billion dollars on training this year. How do they decide where to spend it?

Join us as Shane Green, President of SGEi and author of “Culture Hacker,” joins Peter to tell you why effective training is the piece of the puzzle your company needs to move its customer service forward.

Since starting his career at the Ritz-Carlton, Shane has become a leader in customer experience and organization culture. Listen in as Peter and Shane discuss the process of writing a book on customer experience, and why it is important its market to all aspects of your audience. Also, learn why re-purposing content can save you time and grow your audience.

If you’re just starting out in the thought leadership business, this is the episode you need!

If you need a strategy to bring your thought leadership to market, Thought Leadership Leverage can assist you! Contact us for more information. In addition, we can help you implement marketing, research, and sales. Let us help you so you can devote yourself to what you do best.

Transcript

Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, this is Peter Winick. I am the founder and CEO of Thought Leadership Leverage and you’re joining us on our podcast today which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today my guest is Shane Green. I’ve known Shane for, jeez, probably over 10 years now. Shane’s the author of an amazing book that came out about a year and a half ago called Culture Hacker. He’s the CEO of SGEI which trains professionals who inspire iconic brands. So he’s trained the NBA in customer service. W hotels, net jets, MGM resorts, BMW. He’s done some television work, speaker around the globe. He’s been in this content space for a long, long time in a variety of ways. So thanks for joining us today, Shane.

Shane Green No problem, nice to kind of be here after that introduction. I’m exhausted myself with all that stuff.

Peter Winick Let’s talk about your journey, because your journey is an interesting one in terms of the expertise and hospitality really on the ground there and how that’s evolved for you over the years. So maybe let’s go backwards in time a little bit and tell us a little about how it started for you in hospitality and where it is now in the journey along the way.

Shane Green Yeah, I mean, it’s been a bit of a crazy journey. So like all New Zealanders, we get kicked out of our country at 21 and get told to go and travel the world. And at Big OE, we’re basically given visas to go anywhere and everywhere. That’s why everywhere you go, you find a New Zealander sitting in some pub somewhere. So we get sent around the world, I was fortunate to come to the US and I was probably more fortunate that within sort of the arriving here the first six months, I got a job at the Ritz Carlton in California. But sort of getting part of that I spent the next nine years with the Ritz Carlton hotel company Which you know for all intents and purposes probably one of the best training grounds You know to learn about customer service, but it’s even evolved more than that really you know understanding about you know culture leadership And you know just how to treat people right?

Peter Winick Just to put that in perspective for a moment, Shane, because I don’t think most people know this. In every organization, training is clearly a cost center. Ritz-Carlton was one of the few that turned their training center in Maryland or DC, whatever it was, into a profit center. You want to just touch on that for a minute, because it’s a fascinating case study.

Shane Green Well, and again, I think it’s an interesting case study only because I don’t understand why more HR teams and greater organizations aren’t becoming profit centers because there’s a real opportunity out there. You know, Ritz-Carlton leveraged its best practices and training, but really its expertise around culture, around leadership, around developing world-class service organizations and of course, you know, when you do something really well, everybody wants to know the secret sauce. So what they were able to do and what they recognized is that they were to create. their own version of the university, very similar to the Disney model, where obviously organizations get to go and pick their brains and get the download. I think what’s most interesting is you evolve over the years and even meeting some people out there in the world. You know, they think that once they go to one of these universities, Disney, Ritz, Zappos, and all of that, that, you know, they get a little sprinkling of the of the secret sauce and all of a sudden they’re going to turn their company or culture or customer experience into that. It’s not quite as easy as that, but it’s a pretty good place to get some good.

Peter Winick Exactly, so you’ve got your hospitality experience at Ritz-Carlton and then what happens from there.

Shane Green So then, you know, then my entrepreneurial spurt sort of kicked in and I thought I should start a company not nearly knowing what company would be. But it was funny at the time with Ritz Carlton, I was training in Asia, helping him to open up hotels, having a pretty good time over there. So I realized there was an ability that I could probably speak halfway decently. The access probably helped. And as I said, I had a little bit of knowledge, you know, around customer service. So I started my first business, which was a customer service training organization with the goal of really just focusing on helping small hotels to sort of elevate their service. And I think, you know, as you sort of most people probably listening out there knows, but it took a while for this to kick in with me. But as we’re out there doing a lot of customer service based training. What we soon recognize is that, you know, a good training event, and I’ll call it an event where you get people in and you deliver a great experience to them that has a pretty short term effect, which means it really doesn’t do a lot of damage or, or a lot of positive stuff, unless it’s built, or unless there’s some socialization coaching and different things built around it. So I think there’s been an evolution over the years.

Peter Winick Let me touch on that for a second because I think that model largely exists in too many companies today where the solution to the problem is take people that work 250, 275 days a year doing something for 8 to 10 hours a day and send them off to a 4-hour program and then their world will change and we never have to touch it again, right? And clearly that doesn’t work.

Shane Green Yeah, and that’s just it. I mean, it’s funny, I just did some work in the last couple of weeks. But you know, companies are going to spend almost a billion dollars in the US this year on training. I mean that’s a staggering number. And you know they seem to be convinced, like you said, that if you put them in a training event or a four-hour, eight-hour or even worse, you know two-day sort of off-site that puts people to sleep, that you’re going to change their world. I think if you look, I mean, we’ve been working with a lot of different companies now over the last 10 years and sort of surveying and researching. And what’s most interesting is that many of those training events that companies are putting on actually reinforce with the associates that they have to just maintain status quo. And it actually has a negative impact on their interest in learning more. And I think that leads to the sort of a bigger issue for many companies is that You know, you hear so many companies complaining about their employees not wanting to change. And you know, it all goes hand in hand. The companies that invest the most in training, which means they’re constantly challenging and create that mindset with their employees about learning, I think are the most set up best to be out of change because, you know when their employees are constantly learning and growing, this idea of change isn’t so scary. But when you put someone in an eight-hour class and teach them a bunch of lecture to them for eight hours, just like you did at school and all those bad sort of experiences and came back from all those years ago, they just shut down. And once you shut down and you get into that status quo, it’s very hard for all of them to suddenly then roll out some sort of change program when everyone’s basically Yeah, it’s not gonna happen

Peter Winick So let me ask you this. I mean, you’re in the business of providing, I don’t want to call them training solutions because it just sort of negates what we said there, but interventions and solutions to organization to up their game from both a cultural perspective as well as a customer service experience level. You said that companies that invest a lot, what are you looking for in an ideal client? How do you know when you’re talking to a prospect or client that they’re serious? and that they’re gonna be a good fit for you and they understand that this is more than an event or a transaction and they’re willing to make that investment of time. What is it that you’re looking for as the provider?

Shane Green Well, I think it’s interesting. And again, you know me fairly well. So this has taken a long time to sort of get across to me. So, you know, I, I. Think what we hit on as a company, I was one of the culprits of delivering training events. So you know, we were delivering these events, and shit, we had to deliver a lot of events. And you know as I said, it took a lot effort, a lot of work. And, you know, what we realized is we were part of this kind of feel good moment where everyone feel good for two seconds and then basically we’re complaining, why isn’t this working more? So it’s interesting that, you now, our companies now evolve where we do a lot less training and a lot more consulting. And what we’re doing is that companies come to us, you from across all industries didn’t ask us and they sort of sagged. How are we going to improve our customer experience? We’ve got to get our scores up. You know, we know the service profit chain works, et cetera, et cetera. And so our first question then was we go, fantastic, let’s talk about your culture. And they sort of look at us sideways and go, oh no, no, we want to just do training. And I’m going, that’s great, but training is just one of the mechanisms that is ultimately going to improve your customer experience. And I’ll let you in on the secret, that training for your employees is one of last things you’d want to do because of so many other elements that have to be in play. So Your answer to the question of like, well, what does a company look like, is when they suddenly look to us and they go, you know what, we’ve been wondering about culture, but we weren’t quite sure how to approach it. And as a result, we are having, you know, our success in the last two or three years particularly, is really elevated when we’ve gone beyond just providing training events, but actually talking about bigger picture.

Peter Winick So how do you pivot that, right? Because the client comes to you with the quote, presenting system, you know, symptom of, oh, we need to improve our customer experience levels because there’s some data point that tells them that, right, they just got some bad net promoter score or something like that. And they’re expecting the answer to be what every other service provider would be. Yeah, we’ve got a half day on the customer experience or, you now, the blow away experience or creating the Ritz-Carlton level of experience, whatever, and you totally change the conversation and say, yep, in order to do A, You gotta go to culture. right? And that’s not what they were looking for, right? But it’s the prescription that you as the expert are prescribing. How do you get them to sort of come along on that journey with you? Because it’s a big mind shift for them.

Shane Green Yeah, and it is, but again, we’re fortunate enough, I think we’re in a time where people are starting to understand. Listen, everyone hears this word culture, but quite honestly, they don’t know what it means half the time. they know that it’s something that they should probably be working on. So it’s interesting when they go, all right, let’s talk about culture. And I think this is where my experience in Ritz Colton, it comes up time and time again, when I worked at Ritz every day, you know, we pretty much talked about a very simple, it’s an older hospitality axiom, which is called a truth. And that truth was an employee with a great attitude delivers great service, an employee with a bad attitude delivers poor service. Very, very basic and simple, but it’s been around forever. We basically evaluated that and we said, okay, let us talk about your customer service. In your mind, what we are coming in to do is provide more service skills. And I’m going to probably tell you at a guest, based on our experience, that pretty much all your employees have been through some sort of service training at least probably 10 to 20 times, depending on their tenure. And I’ll just going to say, I’m not going to do that again, because quite honestly, it’s pointless. And I can tell you that from the Ritz Carlton and in fact, a lot of other very successful organizations, it’s less about service skills and more about service attitude. And I think this is where we start to make the connect because then they set up a little bit straighter and they go, well, what’s service attitude? And I go, it’s like anything. It’s how they feel when they’re about to interact with the customer. And I said, now that’s where culture is. Culture is really by definition, just the collective mindset of your employees. And so what I want to understand is that if you want to provide great service, then you need to make sure that your employees have the right mindset coming to work. And that mindset isn’t just about customer service. It’s actually about how much effort they’re going to put in today with our younger generations is whether or not they’re gonna stick around with you. And I go, all of this takes to the bottom line. But if we go back to just talking about customer experience, then I can tell you, and I can you from the best companies that do this the best, the best customer service, and I could put it on, I usually in the room, I’ll ask everybody. I’m like. Tell me about your best or worst customer experience. And they’ll start to talk about it and I go, was it really about skill or was it all about their attitude and personality? And all of a sudden I go the most important thing for me when it comes to great customer services, are you hiring the right people? Are you onboarding the right person? Are you recognizing and incentivizing them right? Are you getting the people that shouldn’t be taking care of your customers out at the right time? And so I say, these are all the things, these mechanisms that are influencing culture. And I said, listen, at the end of the day, we will provide some type of training. I just do not believe. it’s the type of training you’re expecting. And what’s most interesting, if you look at our number one service training delivery in the last year, it was about stress management. And what does that mean? As I said, what we’ve understood is that, you know, for the most part, one of the biggest challenges in very stressful environments with employees that deal with a… you know, a lot of customers simultaneously is that it gets quite stressful. And so what we’re trying to do is kind of trying to shift and the real challenge for customer service organizations is to help relieve stress, help that mindset or that attitude to be maintained throughout this.

Peter Winick So, the complaint in hospitality isn’t that you put the salad fork to the left and it should be to the right or whatever the case is, right? That’s not what the gist of the complaint is. The server didn’t care, he was gruff or was disengaged or whatever case might be. So let’s sort of move the journey now to you sort of change your thinking on how to improve customer experience levels and customer service at organizations and it from training. to touching on culture. And then there might be times you go back to training. Then you decide to write a book on culture, right? So you did Culture Hacker. What was that experience like? Because a lot of our folks listening today either have written books or in the process of writing a book or thinking about it. Share with us your Culture Hackers, behind the scenes at Culture Hack, if you will.

Shane Green Yeah, well, as I said, I’m probably going to ruin the book writing experience. Maybe. Listen, as a said, I wrote a book. Okay. Why did I write a book? One, because no one else was writing that book. And it’s one of the things that I’ve come to sort of learn. And I talk about it a lot. It’s like, culture is not an HR thing yet. For many organizations, they basically put the responsibility of culture on the HR team. And so therefore you’ve got lots of HR sort of people surrounding the sort of circling the wagons that they very.

Peter Winick which means they’re the ones getting the nasty email from the boss when the employee engagement survey comes in bad.

Shane Green Yeah, they are. But what the problem is, they’re not getting the nasty email from the customer. And I think where the big disconnect is so, you know, what’s most interesting is when we’re brought into an organization, it’s not from the HR group from the ops team. And this is where you start to get that disconnect is that in most organizations, culture is an HR institution, it’s protected. And I don’t blame HR either, by the way, because it’s the most fun part of business, gets them out of the administrative way, but. let’s face it, most of them are snowed under with administrative and legislation and all these, all these other things. They actually forget to talk about focus on people. So the reality is, is that that protective of it and, and the ops team are kind of going, Hey, I kind of get what this guy’s talking about. It’s like, you know what? If I could just make my employees feel a little bit better, immediately our scores are going to sort of go up through the roof. And I think this is the piece that we started to get to is that it has to be an operations focus. And so the idea of culture, it’s funny when you sit in a room and you’re sort of presenting this out, you know, you have everybody nodding and all of a sudden the HR, you thought they were coming in to tick off on a training program realizes that someone’s about to get into their protected space. that’s as good about set things, it really is an interesting dynamic. So the HR team needs to be more connected with the operations team is one of the most fundamental elements that we bring to the table. And so when I wrote the book, I’m an ops person. I wrote it from an operations perspective. I wrote, it I’m like, here’s what you can do as an operator to actually make your people feel good. And it’s not rocket science. It doesn’t cost millions of dollars. It’s actually relatively simple. So I wrote. The book. And again, I am not a writer as you probably know, but What I started to do is I was just writing blogs and I was I was given some good advice that hey Just start writing a blog a month and make it a chapter of the book or at least the outline and we sort of did that And you know after 12 months, we actually had 13 chapters written. So not pretty pretty good synopsis of the chapter And my marketing person at the time says, you know what, let’s just send this out as an exercise. I’m like, yes, I’m not thinking that anybody’s gonna pay some interest to it. But I think the topic, I think, the angle coming from sort of my background and the fact that we’ve worked with so many big companies, there was some interest. So we ended up writing a book by default. And it was kind of interesting that as a speaker, people out there, as a speaker, people want you to have that book because it’s kind of like your stamp to the big boy class. But more broadly for us, it’s become by far our best marketing tool. And I think that’s where, you know, I do a lot of speaking, we’ve done the TV, but the hardware business and our consulting business, as a result of the book, I think what it does is it creates interactions, conversations. It’s a talking point, it’s a fantastic sales tool. The fact that you turn up to meetings or before, you know people are interested in you, send them a copy of the books. There’s a great kind of, oh, you know this person might know, you know what they’re talking about. And I can tell you, as you see it, it’s being, you know… just under 18 months since the book came out. And in that time we’ve got two massive consulting projects.

Peter Winick That’s where I want to go, Shane. So I think you’ve always had a long-term view of the business and how you operate. Most people, I shouldn’t say most, many people come off of a book depressed. And what I mean by that is, oh, they put all this effort and energy and time and they’re proud of it and all that sort of stuff. And six or eight months later, they sold maybe a couple thousand copies and the world really hasn’t changed. But given that it’s been 18 months, the book is no longer sort of. you’re not in book mode anymore, right? Book mode is three, four, five months when you’re launching and it’s sort of new and you do the blog tours and do all that sort of stuff. Now it’s integrated into how you operate and you’re getting into higher ticket, bigger level engagements that are more consultative than the commodity side of the training market. Seems like that’s the big game changer for you.

Shane Green Yeah, it is. And I think, you know, you touched on a big, I was never caught up in the book mode. And as you said, I think probably some people get too caught up with the book. It’s an ego piece. You know, maybe it was the fact that I’d done a television show and my ego had already just pretty much destroyed by bad reviews and all that sort of stuff. But I was ever in the Book Mode. We never came out with that because as I said, That’s it, I’m not putting my career on being a writer. I enjoy speaking and I’m fortunate enough to speak around the world, but again, I don’t go, I’m a speaker. What I end up being is I’m business person that just happens to enjoy a lot of these mediums around thought leadership and being able to share my message because I love that. But at the end of the day, what the focus was, and again, the hope was, is that this was another way to get my message out. And I do a podcast and I do TV segments and I go, each one of those mediums is just a way to get the message out. And as you said, you know what? When you sell a few thousand copies of a book, you might hit that right person. And whether it’s your video, whether it your blog, in some way all we’ve ended up doing, you know, whether was a strategy, but what we’ve done is we’ve created many different ways in which someone can hear our message. And listen, I’m not for everybody, but you know if somebody kind of comes across a video or maybe the book picks it up in the bookstore. That’s happened. And what I can say is that out of all of the pieces that we have working, and we have a lot of stuff working, is that the book has produced the two big pieces. And it was based on the fact that what we did was apply a very operational piece. And I think that was where businesses become most comfortable. Because I think we become, you know, I can sort of fall into the category of become too human resource focused, too philosophical focused, too book fired. I’m like. You got to stay business focused if that’s what you want to be and that’s what obviously we wanted to be at the time.

Peter Winick Sure. So let me unpack some of the things that you said there because I think they’re really key. Number one thing that you said is, I’m not for everyone. So I think the and I love that and you’re clearly not for Everyone, which is why you’re successful, right? So, you know, if a traditional or sort of conservative HR prints, oh, man, he’s, he uses the f word, or, you know, he doesn’t think the way we do and say, Okay, well, that’s fine. Then you go have another cup of tea. I’m not your cup of D, right. I think one mistake that people make earlier on is, oh man, I don’t, I don’t want to offend and I want to please everyone. and I want to serve everyone. And you dilute it to the point where it’s commodity, there’s nothing to it, right? And the fact that you have a distinct style, you have distinct perspective, you have the gravitas and the experience to talk from it and you know that you’re not for everyone is awesome. Second thing that you said that I think was key is all these different mediums that you do, whether it’s television, the book, talking it on CNN or whatever the case may be. it’s just another place to get someone in the door, right? If the first touch point is a blog, great, come on in. If the touch point they put up the book at the airport or the local bookstore or whatever the case is, come on and you don’t know exactly where they’re gonna come from, nor does anyone. So you’ve got to put your markers everywhere. So any you would add to that? Yeah, you’re absolutely right.

Shane Green And here’s the piece that I think I’ve discovered is that you know, I’m gonna use the book, you know And as I said, I wrote the book is 13 blogs So the blogs were written two years ago, maybe even three of some of the first one I’ve repurposed that content so many times which means you know I think one of the learning lessons is that I’ve done it and that we’re getting I think a lot better at is Getting very good at repurposing content. It doesn’t have to be all original. You know, I keep coming back to, you know, I’ve used the blog. I might go back in or actually someone from my office might go back in and touch up the blog and add some latest research and send it back out to

Peter Winick world again. So, but even the repurposing Shane, I think it’s key because I talk about this a lot is that oftentimes a thought leader or creative thinks, oh, I’ve got to, I’m gonna create new and new and New and New. And I’m a machine that has to create content. And it’s like, well, maybe not, right. And this repurposing for some creatives feels not gratifying or feels lazy. But if you know that, you know, thanks to the internet, the world is a laboratory that gives you data. So if you put out a blog or a piece or whatever, and it worked well for people. right? So you did a blog and for some reason that got more comments or whatever the case is than other blogs. What was in that one that you could use again and again and again and repurposing it across multiple formats as opposed to going back and starting from the drawing board? And I think some people just don’t feel comfortable doing that. But I think, you know, to your point before your business person first, and then second, you’re a thought leader. So to you, I would imagine the repurposed is really just an efficient use of resources, time, and energy.

Shane Green Yeah, and what’s the most important resource and again, whether it’s a business person or thought leader It’s my time and I think I and I can tell you know me very well I’ve been horrible at this over the years because I have been in that situation where I thought it was all about me And again to a certain degree I still do have that sort of sits at the back of my mind, but it’s just not effective It’s not it’s not if you can’t grow a business With that philosophy and it doesn’t matter what the business is if you’re the only thing that’s the business it’s a pretty, pretty low ceiling. So I think you’ve got to be able to do that. But I think it’s going to be smart with the content, which means repurpose, repurpose and have your content. I say it broad enough. Like, you know, we have a whole, we have whole library of content right now on a, on very broad subjects that if tomorrow there is a, what would we just use it on? So I have a thing on unions that I’ve written about or we’ve done, I’m like… If something breaks tomorrow in the news about unions, we’ve got a video, we’ve gotta blog, and I can go and do three lines on Twitter and some of the other mediums, and all of a sudden I have now responded to that. So one of the things that we created was some very generic content, some broad videos that we are repurposing when a topical issue comes up, something that’s relevant in the new media. We’re always developing those, and we have that library. And then that takes the pressure off because now I got my team that sort of says, Hey, we, you know, this, the unions or Starbucks today, Starbucks is a great one. Just came out today, the report about, you know, they have to rethink their training. And there was a number of recommendations came down. We did a video on training, a video around diversity and even a video on what we thought of Starbucks. We had, we had this, this stuff sitting in the bank, you know, months ago, and I’m like, great, just, we got it all. Just send it out again.

Peter Winick So it’s that creating content with an evergreen lens and also knowing that you can just tweak it just a little bit to make it so topical, right? Because that Starbucks piece that you did three weeks ago, probably not all that relevant, but because of external circumstances, you take it off the shelf, polish it off, add a little zip to it. And now it’s as if it was created just in that moment without the fire drill of having to create something in a reactive mode to something going on in the marketplace.

Shane Green Yeah. And I think the other pieces is that, you know, as I’ve looked at my team that I have here, anything that I post, they capture, which means, you know, they’ve got a ridiculous amount of library because, you know, I’m as a thought leader, I get quite real, I, you know, just, I’ll just rant or I’ll get on Twitter about something or I’m funny. I sit in my office and I go, I just want to do a video. So we have a little setup. I’m like, I will knock a video out. So, but what, but what my team is really good at is they even though it’s reactive for me or I put some ideas out, they capture it all and they use it and repurpose it and they take it in different ways. And probably one of the best ones is that because I have so much content, we are now able to respond to articles, journalists, really quickly and easily, sometimes without me even having to touch it because we’ve got the content and the point of view already downplayed. So yes, while it builds up over a period of time, my biggest thing is like, that content, you might have just done a Twitter once or send out an Instagram or there was an image. I’m like, this library that you have has to be organized, has to managed and then hand it to someone that you obviously, you know, who gets you, who can now spread and suddenly quadruple your time so effectively. I think that’s obviously thought leaders. The one most successful ones do that a lot better than I do, but for me, it’s been that learning lessons, particularly in the last year and a half with the book.

Peter Winick really grown and it takes that burden off of you so let me as we’ve got to start wrapping up here so let me just ask you as we wrap up because there’s been so much information here give me one really dumb thing that you’ve done that you tell people not to do that and then something that you’re doing now that’s really working well that you might not have thought would have been working as well as it has

Shane Green Yeah, I was going to say there’s so many dumb things that we do. But let’s, you know, again, back into thought leadership, you know, the dumbest thing, and it’s not an event, it’s a thought of mine, that, you know, I have to do everything that I have to control everything that I have to approve everything. I know I’ve gone through that state, I have to I have to speak to everything, you know, at the end of the day, as I said, it it’s the toughest mindset we have to get over. We have to get over ourselves. Um, we, we have to use our time focusing on the stuff we’re meant to, which is thinking and, and, you know, putting some ideas out to the world, you know when you, when you get so caught up. So, you now that the dumb and again, I don’t know, it’s a process you have to go through, but I think it’s like everything. The dumbest thing is, is continuing to believe that, you know, you have do this on your own. And you know the most exciting thing we’re working on right now is, you know that we’ve done really well is, again, you know, with the book. The book was this, and again, it’s in many ways, unplanned event that has now, we’re now like, we don’t wanna waste it. So as a result of that, we’ve really, I think got our content a lot better aligned. As I said, we’re repurposing very smartly and we’re not getting involved into the next phase. I love getting out there speaking, which I do a lot of it. Getting back into the TV, you know, we did TV first time around was kind of reality and crazy and a lot of fun this time. We’re being invited into actually comment, which for us is really for me is very, very gratifying because it allows me ultimately to have that voice. So, you strategically looking again at all those different angles is just a different way to send the same message out is exciting because, as you said before, you’re not sure which one is going to pick it up, but you are picking it up. and I think that’s, as a thought leader, you can’t just rely on. being a Twitter and getting tons of followers and think that’s gonna be it, you’ve gotta really try and strategically start to look at yourself and how do you get in as many of these different distribution channels as possible.

Peter Winick Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing, sharing so much with us today. I feel like I’m going to go back to and listen to this one two or three times because it’s packed full of real nuggets and real goodies here. But thank you. So much. Thanks for joining us and sharing with us. Oh, the pleasure to talk, man. Oh, great. And just tell people where they can find you. How do people shoot an email or get in touch or find SGE?

Shane Green Yeah, listen, as I said, create the conversation. I’m in all the usual places, Twitter, Facebook page, and all that, but just go to shangreen.com. Just reach out to me, Shane, S-H-A-N-E, at shangrene.com, you know, have a conversation. I think that’s what I am most committed to doing, particularly those of you out there that are struggling a little bit, because I can tell you, I was doing the same struggle and the same dumb thing. So have a conversion, shanggreen.com check out the website, and as I say, keep the conversation flowing. Thank you, thanks so much, Shane. Thanks man, take care.

Peter Winick To learn more about thought leadership leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.