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Leveraging Thought Leadership With Peter Winick – Episode 81 – Allison Shapira
Taking your book to market involves a lot of tough decisions. How do you know you’ve covered them all?
Our guest this week is Allison Shapira, CEO of Global Public Speaking and author of “Speak with Impact.” Join us as Allison shares her insights on book publishing. Learn how to clearly define your audience, how to choose between a traditional publisher or self-publishing and knowing the difference between book pricing and book value.
Alison also talks about how success comes from building relationships of trust, and how to get started on strengthening your social network.
You can get more great advice from Allison here, in her blog!
If you need a strategy to bring your thought leadership to market, Thought Leadership Leverage can assist you! Contact us for more information. In addition, we can help you implement marketing, research, and sales. Let us help you so you can devote yourself to what you do best.
Transcript
Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, this is Peter Winick. I’m the founder and CEO of Thought Leadership Leverage. And you’re joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. And today my guest is Alison Shapira. She is the founder and CEO global public speaking. She’s a TEDx speaker. She is an adjunct lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School, member of the NSA, she’s an author, pretty much what you’d expect for folks to come on the show. You get most of the boxes checked there, Alison. So welcome and thanks for coming on board today.
Alison Shapira Thanks Peter, great to be here.
Peter Winick Great, so your core work, if you will, or the gist of your work is around effective public speaking, right? And there’s lots of ways that you can help people with that. Why don’t you give us an overview, if would, of what it is you do and then how all of the various things that you’re doing from a thought leadership perspective help drive the business side of the house.
Alison Shapira Well, I’m the founder and CEO of a company called Global Public Speaking. We’re a training firm and we teach public speaking and presentation skills. So everything we do, and everything I do as a CEO is about building thought leadership through our speaking through workshops, through keynote speeches, and executive coaching. Everything we do is intended to drive awareness of the field of communication and the power of finding your voice.
Peter Winick So two different buckets that I sort of see there. There’s awareness, right? So there’s a set of the universe that doesn’t know who you are and what you do and how you do it, right. And then you make some folks aware, and some of them will want to come on board and be clients. Could you tell me the different approaches that you use from awareness to get people to be aware, number one, and then number two, to get to move from aware to saying, yes, I’m wise enough where I should now be a client of yours.
Alison Shapira You’re absolutely right to think about it in two different buckets because not everyone is in both buckets. When you look at who’s afraid of public speaking, who needs to speak with impact, who needs these skills, the answer is everyone and anyone regardless of what age they are, what stage in their career. Not everyone is a good target audience for us, for a client, because not everyone has either the desire or the budget to invest in public speaking skills. So our goal is twofold. It’s first to spread the knowledge to everyone, regardless of whether they can afford it or not. So in my book, the democratization of that knowledge as I see it. And then there’s thinking specifically about who needs our services and has a program in place that we can plug into, whether it’s a leadership development program. or someone who needs individual coaching or a company that wants to invest in its top talent. So then our goal becomes finding those particular individuals or organizations and then connecting with them, many times through the same channels that we’re using to connect with everyone. And then one-on-one having a conversation.
Peter Winick So the filter is, from one end of the continuum, everybody could use your help, which I agree, but the filter that you need to put on it as a CEO and a business person is, well, the ones that are of interest of most value to us fit the following criteria. So could you talk a little bit about, I don’t know whether you use sort of client avatars or what the filtering mechanisms are that you use to say, yeah, these are really, really important to us. These are folks that we can help well. These are high value potential clients to us and therefore. we’re willing to invest more time and energy and effort into finding them.
Alison Shapira It’s a great question. And when I first moved to Washington, DC, to launch the business, I had a very clear idea of who my target audience was. I thought, I’m in DC. There are a lot of diplomats. There are lot of lawyers. These will be my target audiences. And I started to go to events at law firms and at embassies. And I realized that those two groups really didn’t. want my services. I mean, they really weren’t that interested. Do they need it? Yes. Do they necessarily want to pay for it? No. And so what I found is I had to look at other industries and found that the the clients who most need my services are people who from technical backgrounds. So banking, accounting, and Their success doesn’t necessarily come from their technical knowledge. Their success comes from building relationships of trust with clients and colleagues, and that’s where their technical skills fail. So that makes them a great target audience for me. Now, another important element here is that it’s not just the people who need the skills and have a budget for it. It’s also the people who get why this is important. And I have learned it’s very to convince someone public speaking is important if they refuse to believe it. So my goal is to find the people who already get it because when they do then they’re going to become advocates for me inside of their company.
Peter Winick Got it. So let me ask you this, you’ve got your frameworks, your models, the way that you think about the world and the way you teach this, which is somewhat unique, right? And that can be deployed in a variety of ways, right, I can hire you as a coach, I could hire one of your people, we could do workshops, we can do, you know, all sorts of things. Where do you sort of segment the pricing against value, right. So if you’re using the same methodology and it’s for a lower value group and a No Stake Search. situation, they might pay X. If you’re dealing with, I don’t know, you know, a CEO in a high stakes situation or a product launch that’s highly visible, they may pay some multiple of that. How do you sort of jive that up? How do get that to add up?
Alison Shapira the material always brings an incredible value regardless of what the price is. I mean, I certainly I feel very strongly about pricing what my material, what my experience and what the impact is of my programs. So I don’t shy away from that. I believe very strongly in the value it brings.
Peter Winick Go deeper on that because I think I want to pause you there for a second because I think a lot of thought leaders and creators don’t have that mindset. I think it’s a critical one to have because you’re only shortchanging yourself to realize that you can take the same great content, put it into two or three different situations and outside of any control that you have, the value that it creates is one could be exponentially greater than another just based on the client usage situation.
Alison Shapira Well, it depends on how you define value. I mean, if you define, I work with nonprofits and we’re working with individuals or organizations around the world that are creating life changing impact on the ground in their community. Can you put a price on that? No. Is there value? A hundred percent. So, but at the same time, if I’m talking to investment bankers and I can say to them, I can help you win one more piece of business from your client. If I can get you through communication training to be able to close a deal faster or close an additional deal. then it doesn’t matter how much the training costs because the value of closing one deal in that industry is so incredibly high. Now I’m not going to change the value I think I provide simply because somebody can’t pay that much. It’s always gonna be the same value but the measurement is gonna be different.
Peter Winick But you have to choose where to play, right? So you can say, listen, my stuff’s really good. Do I want to play in low value situations or high value? And you might come to a conclusion, as I’ve seen many of my clients and people I work with, do you say, well, I personally want to deal in the high value situations because I enjoy that and I’ve got the expertise, et cetera. But I can create some derivative solutions, derivative offerings, training, et cetera, which more of a self-serve model or asynchronous training or something like that.
Alison Shapira Correct, and you can look at it in a few different ways. One thing to mention is that in this business, in this industry, people equate the price you charge with the value you bring.
Peter Winick Yep, totally.
Alison Shapira It’s not always accurate, but in pricing, there’s a way to make sure that people look at you and recognize you take yourself seriously and you place a high value on what you deliver, therefore you price accordingly. At the same time, people may make the decision that they wanna work, they may bucket their time in different ways. Let’s say my corporate clients have the budget. and recognize that this is important. And so I’m going to work with them. I believe in them. I also appreciate the fact that they have a budget. And then I’m gonna decide that a percentage of my time is gonna be dedicated to those who don’t necessarily have the budget, but still have the need. And I decide that I’m to take on a certain number of those clients. So again, I can help people. in all different situations, not just the ones we can afford.
Peter Winick Right. But that’s a sort of value lifestyle exchange. If you were strictly operating under the sort of rubric of I’m going to only do things that maximize dollar value. That’s one way you choose to say. Well, you know, these are a little bit lower value, whatever. But I want to do that because it’s important or it’s good work or their nonprofits or I believe in their mission or whatever the case may be. The other thing that you said there that really stuck out to me is sort of your price makes a statement. And I know that and you’ve got a lot of experience on the speaking side. You know, if you use the speaking analogy, there’s nothing worse or harder to sell than a $3,000 to $5,000 keynoter when you compare that to what it takes to sell a $50,000 keynote. I would rather be in a position of selling $50k keynotes all day and night versus something for $3k to $50K. It’s just way, I don’t know, could you touch on that?
Alison Shapira Your target audience is gonna be different because I’m sure there are plenty of clients who are looking for a $3,000 to $5,000 keynote and they might not be the same clients that are looking a $50,000 key note. So you decide, and this is where your stakeholder analysis comes in and when I teach public speaking, it’s all about who’s your audience. So in this case, it’s looking at who are the people that you want to speak in front of And Where are they located? And then you decide how easy it is to connect with them. It could be a challenge either way. It could easy either way depending on who’s in your network. But it’s important to recognize that you decide, you have to figure out who that audience is based on what you charge and based on where you wanna speak.
Peter Winick Yeah, and my only point is that when you’ve got a buyer, and I use the example of a $50,000 keynote, they’re sophisticated. They’ve probably bought something at that price point before. It’s a relatively high stakes event, an annual conference or something like that. I think there’s just a lot more buyers that are a little bit less sophisticated. Maybe they haven’t done it before. Decisions get made by committee. Just a lot friction in the system in the process to sell basically the same unit of time at a fraction of the cost. That’s just been my experience.
Alison Shapira Sure, I could certainly see that.
Peter Winick So I want to pivot a little bit, you’re in a little bit of book mode right now, and I just want to talk a little bit about, before we get to the content of the book and all that sort of stuff, before you even publish a book, there’s a series of choices you have to make and some thinking you’ve got to do and some strategies you’ve got to put in. So tell us about why you chose to write the book, and then the how in terms of, you know, self published versus traditional and what your hopes and objectives are for the book outside of number of units. So give me sort of your vision and the goals and objectives.
Alison Shapira Absolutely. I have been I’ve been thinking about writing a book for a number of years. And the more I teach public speaking, the more I realize there are certain unique elements to what I teach that aren’t necessarily taught by others. So there is this idea of sharing that knowledge with others. And interestingly enough, I teach a course at the Harvard Kennedy School, and I’ve and looking. for a book to assign as reading in my course. And I haven’t found that right book. That’s everything I want it to be. So I thought, why don’t I write that book? And then I can share with everyone. So there’s there’s the idea of taking the knowledge that I’ve developed, the unique perspective from my background and my experience, putting that into a book. I did a lot of research on the books out there, and there are great books on public speaking out there but none that walk people through the process of writing, practicing and delivering a speech. And then from a business perspective, I’m growing my company. I have trainers and coaches work for me and they’re using my methodology and what better way to give them tools to use that methodology than to write a book that they can use.
Peter Winick So from an internal benefit to your company, it forces you to codify your processes and methodologies and thinking so that you can teach others. Right. So that’s sort of an internal training piece, if you will. And then externally, the cache and the branding and all that stuff. So how did you decide then there’s several. So, that’s, sort of, hey, I’ve been thinking about a book and this is why. And, then let’s get to some of the how, because there’s like almost an infinite number of decisions that you need to make in terms of the.
Alison Shapira No kidding.
Peter Winick style the book, the format of the book the business side, it’s exotic, right? So everybody thinks the writing of the book part is easy, but there’s a whole sort of the invisible business side. How did you make the decisions and the choices that you made to publish the way you did?
Alison Shapira I did a lot of research. I have friends and colleagues who are authors. I asked them how they published. I went to National Speakers Association conferences and I talked to authors. And I was trying to decide, do I want to self-publish it or publish with a traditional publisher? And both are equally valid. I decided, even where I was at this point, I thought I’d try to see if I could get a traditional publishing contract. I thought, I’ll give it one round, and I’m a literary agent and wrote a proposal, and I thought I’ll get it one around and if it doesn’t work, then I’ll self-publish, and I was completely prepared. Interestingly enough, I was approached by Wiley Publisher about writing public speaking for dummies.
Peter Winick Okay.
Alison Shapira And I was very I was honored and gave it some thought. And then I realized that’s not my brand. My brand is public speaking for leaders. Right. And so I actually turned down the publishing contract with Wiley, which with this huge publisher and they were they were lovely. They were they’re very complimentary. But I turned down this publishing contract and then in a fit of anxiety that maybe I had just made the biggest mistake of my career. I wrote in one day a book proposal for public speaking for leaders, which was a different concept but more in line with my target audience and its needs and expectations. And that was the book proposal that I ultimately received a contract for.
Peter Winick So a couple things that you said that I think are really important. One is you gave it a timeline, like, hey, I’m going to get an agent and I’m gonna pitch it, but I’m going to give it one round because I’ve seen people do that and then get stuck into this time cycle without a lot without a deadline. Like, oh, it’s been 18 years and I’ve sort of been shopping it. Well, not 18 years, 18 months, and I’d been shopping. I like the idea of putting a deadline, I like the idea that you made a really, I don’t call it a painful decision, but a difficult decision, right? So Wiley’s a big deal. they’re flexing their muscle, the dummies brand is a very, very strong brand, but it didn’t fit for you. So you’d have to subjugate your brand to that. It wasn’t really meeting your objectives of driving your business needs, which are not for dummies, which are for leaders. That’s a gutsy move to be able to say no to something that is interesting like that. And then, through luck and skill and all that sort of stuff, you got a traditional publishing deal, but you were ready to go the other way with a non-traditional route as well. And I think I like the idea of being open-minded and having deadlines. and understanding the pluses and minuses.
Alison Shapira Correct, and I was flexible and I knew that I would have these different options and I think these days. with the right focus and the right people to help you, you can publish a fantastic book and no one would know that it’s self-published. You might not have the distribution that you would with a traditional publisher, but I think you can do a great, very professional job self- publishing. I simply wanted the additional credibility and reach that I could get with a publisher. And that for me was worth more. than the earning potential from self-publishing. Whereas self- publishing, you’re fronting the cost, but you’re going to get a lot more per book than you’ll get with a traditional publisher.
Peter Winick but that was still worth it. Right, and those are pros and cons, right? So if you’re looking at it over the lifespan of this book, it might sell 20,000 units and you would make whatever, $8 more per unit if you self-publish. That’s one set of metrics. The other set of matrix is distribution, right, reach, brand, access. So I like the methodical way that you went about it because a lot of people don’t make those decisions in such a structured and rigid way. And I think it’s really important because There’s no right or wrong. Like for plenty of people, many people, self-publishing is a good option. And for many people the traditional route is a good option and they both have pros and cons. There’s not Nirvana there, if you will. Cool, so as we start to wrap up, you’ve been at this for quite some time. I always like to ask guests towards the end here, what would you counsel or recommend to somebody that’s just sort of starting down this path of using thought leadership to drive their business and distinguish themselves as an expert and a thought leader? A couple of things that they should think about.
Alison Shapira One approach that worked really well for me is what I call the two cups of coffee method, two cups. Okay. And I have a video on it as well that I just posted. It’s essentially when I was first starting out, I knew what I was good at, I know what I cared about, but I didn’t know what the market needed. And so when I moved to Washington DC, I didn’t have any clients and I was starting a business. So I set a goal of two coffees per day every single day of the week and I kept that pace up for two years. And I didn’t ask people business, I asked them for advice on how my skills would be valuable in their industry, or how my knowledge was valuable. And in doing so, I found out where my target audiences were. So for anyone who has this idea that they’d like to promote, it’s important to find out as we’ve talked about earlier, where are those people that you’re seeking to impact and we’re the people who are the best fit. for what you have to say and what you believe in. And so through conversations, they could be virtual or in person. That’s how you’re going to build that, build the thought leadership from the ground up and also start to build really powerful relationships.
Peter Winick Yeah, and it’s not a get rich, quick business. And it takes determination and effort. And I love that two cups of coffee, because, you know, fast forward a year, whatever the math has 100 and something cups of Coffee, that’s a lot of coffee. So you might decap eventually. But I would imagine great things came out of that. I switched to tea, actually. Switched to tea. Okay, great. Right. So but I imagine you would have stopped doing that if you weren’t getting some sort of benefit. So you’ve planted some seeds, you’ve made some good relationships, you, you good things came from that, I would imagine.
Alison Shapira They certainly did. And what I found is people were saying after every meeting, oh, you should speak to this person. You should speak that person. And what was doing is being able to, I was able to find the right people and iterate and every person would introduce me to somebody else and somebody else. And it really snowballed in a positive way.
Peter Winick Well, this has been awesome. I appreciate your candor and sharing with us the way that you target your clients, which is very thoughtful, the way that you price and position your solutions, your thinking behind the book, and all the various marketing choices you have to make there and all that. But a lot packed into a relatively short period of time, and I appreciate you time. And I thank you for sharing with with us today.
Alison Shapira My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Peter Winick To learn more about thought leadership leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.
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