Convening Thought Leadership | Nora Super

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Convening thought leaders to tackle big problems and create solutions.

An interview with Nora Super about Convening Authority, making it work with thought leadership and the creation of the Alliance to Improve Dementia Care.

Today’s guest is Nora Super, the Executive Director at Milken Institute, a nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank that helps people build meaningful lives. She is also the Executive Director of the Alliance to Improve Dementia Care at the Milken Institute.

Nora explains the power of Convening Authority. She discusses how it helps in thought leadership to make high-level changes to global problems. Also, we chat about the need to get the right people in the room and how to get others to understand the importance of your issue.

In addition, we discuss the creation of the Alliance to Improve Dementia Care and the white paper that started it. Afterwards, Nora expresses what types of members are included to create a community through a shared passion to find clarity around the mission and purpose.

Three Key Takeaways from the Interview:

• Thought leaders need to get the right people in the room in order to find the right solutions.
• A topic might be important to you, but unless your thought leadership makes it important to others it will fall on deaf ears.
• If your thought leadership duplicates work that is already being done, it might be best to join forces with them to elevate the conversation.

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Transcript

Bill Sherman Hello and welcome. You’re listening to Leveraging Thought Leadership. I’m your host, Bill Sherman. And today we’re talking about one of my personal passions, organizational thought leadership. Recently, I’ve been reflecting on the concept of convening authority. Thought leadership can raise a concepts visibility, attract people to join a conversation, and spur them to take action together to tackle a big challenge. So I’ve asked Nora Super to join us for this discussion on convening authority because it’s a topic she understands deeply. Nora has served in a variety of leadership roles, both in the public and private sector. In 2014, she was appointed by the president as the executive director of the White House Conference on Aging. Currently, Nora is the senior director of the Milken Institute Center for the Future of Aging and the executive director of the Milken Institute Alliance to Improve Dementia Care. She oversees data driven research, meaningful policy initiatives and impactful convenings, both in the United States as well as internationally. The alliance is relatively new, launched only a few months ago in the summer of 2020. And so I’m looking forward to hearing the story of how she encouraged people and organizations to say we’re in to improve dementia care. Let’s begin. Welcome to the show, Nora.

Nora Super Well, thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure.

Bill Sherman I’d like to start with a question of we’ve just heard your bio. How did you get into the world of thought leadership? It’s not an area that anybody plans. How did you come to be in this space?

Nora Super Well, I mean, this may sound a bit cliche, Bill, but I really do believe and have been inspired by Gandhi’s quote to be the change you believe in you and in excuse me, be the change you want to see in the world. And I’ve always wanted to be a change maker since I was a little girl and saw injustice. I grew up in New Orleans, Louisiana, where there was a lot of racial injustice. And my mom was a social worker, so she really helped me see that small changes can make a big difference and big changes can make a big difference and that we all have a part to play to help make the world a better place. So I think when I was a student of politics and media, I really was fascinated about how public opinion can influence such a trajectory of an issue, whether to improve the situation or sometimes to make the situation worse. And even when I was in college trying to decide what my major would be if I wanted to be in communications or to work more in public policy, and I remember a mentor of mine said to me when I was considering dating and journalists said, You should aspire to be the one answering the questions, not the one asking the questions. So I think that that just really had a significant impact on me and made me want to be a person who helps lead people thinking down a certain path, which is how I think about leadership.

Bill Sherman And you’ve used a phrase which I think is very powerful that I want to explore today, which is the concept of convening authority. There are big questions and big issues that are out in the world that no one individual or one organization can tackle, and it’s worthy of time and attention, but they often slip through the cracks. And I’d like to focus there for a moment. Let’s talk about the work that you’ve done from convening authority both with the White House and now with the Milken Institute. How does convening authority help thought leadership, and what do you need to make convening authority happen?

Nora Super Well, that’s a great question, Bill, and something that, you know, I really think about a lot through early stages in my career when I worked at George Washington University. And we bring people from government to come up with ways to move forward to. I was also a lobbyist today, R.P., during health reform and really saw the need to get the right people in the room in order to make action happen. And as you mentioned, I have the privilege and honor of serving as executive director of the White House Conference on Aging under President Obama. And when you’re in a White House, it’s a totally different sizzle factor, right? If you call someone and say, we want you to be and make a presentation and the president, United States will be there, will people listen and pay attention? And one of the things President Obama did that was very effective is if we gave folks an audience at the White House and, for example, corporate CEOs or researchers or advocates, we said, you know, what are you going to commit to do? What are you going to try to say that will be a change that you can make? And so it was really challenging the folks that wanted to present information to us to also make a commitment themselves. And I saw that as a really powerful way to get people to think about, well, what could I do? I’m not going to just go asking for something, but there are things that I can do. And we had we had culminated at the White House Conference on Aging about with almost 80 new public private sector initiatives that we announced that day and just saw this powerful ability of bringing people together from all over government. The White House, of course, has the ability to convene all different parts of government. So we had people from Treasury and Department of Labor and permanent justice. Not that you would always think of as folks working on aging, but they really are. They’re all part of the solution as well as corporations, many of whom, you know, provide retirement security to their employees. We had several large corporations like Alaska Airlines and Clorox step up and say, hey, we’re going to automate how we enroll people in their retirement plans. We’re going to give a better matching for that. And they stepped up to the plate to really provide better retirement security to their employees. That is measurable and something we can see impact. We did that just across so many different spectrums. So the ability of being able to convene people of that level, which of course, when you’re talking about the White House, you have people at the CEO level. But of course, all these folks have different people underneath them that work to help implement it and bring them all on board and getting exciting about what we can accomplish together. And then when I joined the Milken Institute, Milken Institute is really just known for putting together some of the world’s most influential convenings. We put on a global conference generally, that’s about 5000 people from 400 countries in L.A. Of course, this year we need to do it virtually, but we still have the power to convene. And from all over industry, from the finance world to health care world down to food service providers, you name it, we’ve got them there. Some of the world’s government leaders, etc.. So really bringing people into the room, being able to say, hey, this is the issue. Here’s some ideas we’ve come up with. What do you think? And it’s just amazing when you can get a group of really smart, dedicated people all together to think about a problem, how many great solutions that people can come up with. And also just the point of not the same people talking to each other. I feel like I’m based in Washington, DC and there’s a bit of an echo chamber some time on some issues where people are really just preaching to the choir. And to advance change, I think it’s really important to bring new people into the room that give you new ideas, new insights, but also so that you are getting better at making your arguments or seeing what works with different types of people to really spread your message further.

Bill Sherman So I want to start exploring some of the work with Milken Institute. But in transition to that, I want to pause for a moment and call out something and ask you to address it a little bit more in the whole thread that you talked about, both pertaining the White House and its convening authority as well as the Milken Institute. There’s an underlying theme that I heard around relationships and convening authority, very connected, it sounds like, to the ability to build and sustain relationships because it’s not just filling a room. It’s getting the right people in the room. Could you elaborate a little bit on that? Maybe you have a story or an example.

Nora Super Absolutely. You know, having the right people in the room to really influence some change is really critical there. So one example that I would give is some of the work we’ve been doing in the Milken Institute around Long-Term Care recently, where Long-Term Care is one of those intractable problems that our country has been working on for over 30 years. Many of us have been working on this, have been beating our head against the wall, saying people are getting older and they’re going to need services and nobody can afford to please do something. And it just sort of has fallen on.

Bill Sherman The demographic trend was visible 50 years ago, right? Yeah.

Nora Super And I think bringing in the new folks, as I said, to think about this, especially, you know, the one of the silver linings of Covid is unfortunately, so many older adults have been impacted in such a negative way, especially people living in nursing homes and other residential care facilities. But it’s also just created new awareness of the problem and some of the issues. And so being able to take advantage of that new awareness and tapping into the relationships that you do have of folks that might not have thought about it before, might have thought long term care was an issue that mattered to them. But say, hey, you know, I’m sure you see on the front page this has been happening. And, you know, are there some things we could work on together to make this better? And I think you see that so much because so many people have experienced this firsthand with having loved ones that they can’t visit with older people that feel isolated and excluded. And so they can really relate to it in a way that they didn’t before. But taking advantage of those relationships where you built your reputation over a long period of time so people know you’re trustworthy, that you’re going to be someone who can accomplish things and that will move things forward. I think, you know, over my career, I’ve been able to build a strong, strong network of people all across different sectors. But the experts are critically important to keep in touch with over the years because I can’t know everything all the time, nor do I want to. But I know some of the most expert people in the world on issues and to have a relationship with them and be able to have a conversation, follow up with an email or, you know, a phone conversation to say, Hey, what’s the latest on X, Y, Z? And, you know, within 30 minutes that person has provided me a wealth of information that could have literally taken me months to research, and I still wouldn’t know what was the best. So I’ve really found that a key to success, as well as knowing the right people to ask the questions. And then also, you know, conveying a sense of where you can share that information. One thing I thought of, too is as a lobbyist, you really have to determine when you’re at the negotiating table what you’re the person on the other side wants from this discussion. And I think that’s true with relationships, too. There’s always going to be some sort of quid pro quo. You know, hopefully you’re working on an issue that people see. This is something important. I want to change the world, but sometimes you really need to persuade people that it’s important. And so really getting a sense of an individual building time to build that relationship so you know, what’s important to them, how you can resonate, how can how can you talk about this issue in a different way that they may then decide, actually, this is about me and I do care about this.

Bill Sherman I want to play connect the dots for a moment and tie back to something you said earlier. You said not to be the person with the questions, but be someone with the answer. And if you can’t be someone with the answer. My father was a reference librarian through his career, and he said, You don’t have to know all of the answers. You need to know where to find them. And in this case, your relationship network of experts, of business professionals, people and government allow you that convening authority to know who to build into the room for an event to make sure you have the right people there.

Nora Super Right. That’s absolutely true. One of the greatest compliments I ever get is when people say this was just a great event. I learned so much. Thank you for including me in this is I want people to walk away from something that I’ve put together and say this was worth my time. You know, all of us have our busy. We have a lot going on. We have different distractions in our life. And so to bring together influential people and have them try to solve an issue, you really have to take a lot of care to figure out who should be in the room, how to ask the questions. And as you said to the right folks, how to make sure there’s a broad representation of viewpoints, of things that are new where, you know, you hate to hear people say, I didn’t learn anything in my time. So that the opposite of that is really striving to put together something where people walk away and say thank you. It was a great opportunity.

Bill Sherman If you are enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you’d like to help spread the word about the podcast, please leave a five-star review and share it with your friends. We are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all major platforms as well as at LeveragingThoughtLeadership.com. So let’s dive into the Alliance to Improve Dementia Care at Milken Institute. And from what I understand, this is a relatively new initiative and group. Is that correct? 2019 or so?

Nora Super Well, we just actually launched it this summer and we had hoped to launch it earlier, but then Covid happened and that delayed some of our plans. We produced a paper in 2019 with that after we produced the paper and the report, then the idea for the alliance sprung from that. And, you know, so it is relatively new, although it’s an issue that I’ve been working on for a long time, and it’s really a passion project for me. I you know, my dad had Alzheimer’s disease and his three siblings. So my sisters and brothers and cousins, you know, all of our relatives have since passed. But we went through many years of caring for four different individuals with Alzheimer’s disease. And we all had different stories and different experiences. And my dad was a physician. My sister is a hospital administrator. I’m a health policy wonk. So we know enough about health care to get around and ask the right questions. But even with that, we saw so many deficiencies in the care that they provided, things that happened that we really wished had happened another way, ways that my father wasn’t treated with dignity or respect. And I think that, you know, I came away from that experience saying, if this happens to us, you know, we’re well educated, understand the systems, as it were, and just imagine have English as your second language, or if you are low income and you can’t take time off of work, you might lose your job to care for someone. So it really brought home to me the need to improve, to improve the situation. So so that, you know, that empowers me and inspires me every single day when I wake up and say, you know, when I even announced it, I used a tweet that said, this is for you, dad. And I just really feel like it’s for all the dads and moms out there that people love and care about to make it better, a better journey for folks. That’s a big part of what drives me well.

Bill Sherman And I believe in thought leadership that you cannot get people to care more about a topic than you do yourself. And so if you’re not passionate about it, other people will say, okay, that sounds like a good or a worthy thing, but it’s not something I’m going to focus my time. But even as you were telling the story, it hit and resonated with me. So let’s look at the start of the project. Your you mentioned a white paper. Was that your idea? Did you seek it out or how did the white paper turn into the alliance?

Nora Super Sure. Great question. So the US Against Alzheimer’s, which is a well-known advocacy organization working on Alzheimer’s related issues, reached out to me. Now I’ve met. I’ve gotten to know them in my work in the White House Conference on Aging. They’ve been very active on Alzheimer’s issues, and I got much more professionally involved on Alzheimer’s issues after I was at the White House. When I moved to the Milken Institute, they reached out and said, you know, the Milken Institute had produced a report on women and dementia in 2016 before I was there, but they wanted us to update it and said, you know, now that you’re there, we’d love for you to update it and we’d like to focus a little bit more on disparities across the board, not just gender disparities, but also racial and ethnic disparities, and also to show what we’ve learned and what what’s amazing, you know, NIH has put a lot more money into Alzheimer’s disease research. Congress has done that. That’s all based on lots of advocates working together to have goals to achieve. Just another demonstration of the power of numbers. And then those investments have paid off where we’ve really seen new things that can give people hope about risk reduction and ways that you can improve your brain health even if you’re diagnosed with Alzheimer’s or a related dementia.

Bill Sherman I think you mentioned to me that your the alliance’s identified six categories of members. Let’s talk about a little bit of the process and get into the weeds even of how do you identify these? How did you start recruiting people to care? Because I know and I’ve had conversations with others who say, yes, I could see an institute for this thought leadership, but they’ve not gone down the journey. And so I would love to be able to share a little bit of that process of standing it up, getting the first sponsors to join in and say, yes, this is something we care about, too. So let’s start with the six categories.

Nora Super Sure. So as I mentioned, this is people have given us this idea and it was also part of my own brainchild. Who are the people that we need to have in a room to make action? And so what we identified, we need advocates. You know, I work at a think tank so we don’t actually lobby and go up on the Hill or go to government to a lot of things. So we need applicants. We need researchers. We need folks that understand the issues, have studied it and be the experts that they can tell us. We need industry, we need funding, which is one of the issues of why we reached out to industry, but also because it gives us more credibility to be able to show a broad spectrum of supporters across corporate America. And so we do have a broad spectrum there. The fourth category is philanthropies. So in addition to industry support, we have foundations, support and many foundations that are committed to Alzheimer’s disease and related dementia that are on board and helping us with this. The fifth category, which I’m really excited about, that we are working with in partnership with the Johnny Harper Foundation, is our health systems themselves. Margaret Foundation started the Age Friendly Health System Initiative, and then in partnership with us, we’re going to be working on be really implementing this at the ground level to see where health systems can focus on people. You know, improve care for people living with dementia. And then our last partner, of course, which is critical, is government. So we have several government decision makers that are part of our alliance that can help us understand where there are levers, policy levers where we can make a change that can help us also see some of the best data sources that that are available. And, you know, they were part of my advisory board when I wrote the recommendations and just advice that was so helpful in terms of, you know, you can’t really say that this is what the data said. So you have that credibility that you add with the advocacy voice to say what we’re saying is true. It’s based on evidence. It’s been verified by some of the leading researchers in the world, both in government and outside, but also we have champions to really push these for people that have the passion to make a change. You know, that’s something I’ve learned over my many years of putting together coalitions, trying to advance and enact legislation that you really need to have many players at the table. It’s not just one. And think about the types of questions you’ll get, the types of pushback that you might get. You know, you raise this with the six folks and here’s a think tank that would just do what people say. There’s a lot of people doing stuff in Alzheimer’s and dementia. Why? Why are you why should we money for this? Because it’s something different. And at the Milken Institute, we have the convening power, as we’ve discussed before, to bring together some folks that are not normally all in the room, bringing some new partners to the table. But also we were very, very careful in selecting what we would focus on. So once we developed our initial report and recommendations, we have five major goals for that. We’ve brought that those were developed through a consensus making process, really starting at a Milken Institute event, a private session that had, you know, philanthropists, researchers. We even had Francis Collins from NIH there. So really thoughtful people to say, what should we focus on? What should be the difference? And that went through a methodical process over the next nine months where we talked to we brought together government leaders, advocates, others to really get a consensus, build on the recommendations. And with that process, not only do you have consensus that they are the right recommendations, but there’s that buy in from all the participants because they were part of the process, they helped develop them. And so they’re more likely to help champion them as well once they’ve been released, which is critical is one thing. If I just go out and say, you know, it’s really important to spread awareness of risk reduction strategies for people and it’s, okay, where are you? But if I have a whole bunch of people behind me saying, yes, we looked at all the evidence, this is what we saw. We also were careful to find a niche where we could make a difference. We didn’t want to duplicate efforts. We didn’t want to claim we were experts in an area that we might not be the expert. And so, for example, I’m not a scientist, but I can partner with other scientists that know the science. And what we found, though, is that where the gap existed the most was really on the the care side of the equation. For people living with dementia and their caregivers, there’s a lot of research and investment in trying to find a cure in the drug development side of the equation and some of the testing for diagnosis and treatment. But there’s not as much that’s being done on which care interventions actually work. Once you get the disease, what are the things we can do to make the process improve the quality of life of the person living with dementia and their caregivers and really testing those out and seeing what can be replicated, what can be scaled, how can we change payment policies or training for health professionals differently to make it better? And so that’s what we used to have is is the goal of really seeing that this was an unmet need. And we’ve brought together so many people across the field who said, yes, this is so needed, this is so needed. So they really sign up and say, I’m all in, because this has been this has been an issue that’s been neglected for too long.

Bill Sherman So if I were to summarize, I start hearing a couple threads that come together in standing up this institute and you’ve given some great examples of challenges and successes. The first piece we’ve talked about is convening and getting the right people to join in and then going beyond that to creating community where they agree and they choose to be there rather than they feel like, Yeah, I’ll show up, but I don’t have to be there, right? So community is created through shared passion. And you talked about some of the vulnerability of showing this is why I care about this and why it’s important and then probably invited others to also. Been up and say, I’ve got a mother, an odd an uncle who has dementia as well. And it becomes personal. And that’s where the community connection begins and then consensus. So we’re moving through sort of three C’s so far. Consensus. What will we cover and what will we not? Where will we play and where will we say this is not what we’re good at? And then the final is clarity. Clarity of mission. Clarity of purpose. And that willingness to execute together and saying, this is why we’re here, this is what we’re passionate about and this is how we’re going to put time, resources, treasure against making this better.

Nora Super Absolutely.

Bill Sherman So I want.

Nora Super Go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, you know, another thing, too, is in launching this, we really had an umbrella philosophy of bringing in as many people under the tent as we can, feeling that they’ll be that they’re part of it and we can all collaborate together. But I’m also very action oriented. So I know from working in large, you know, having large meetings, especially now that we’re not able to see each other in person, it can really be hard to get things done in an hour long conversation with 60 people. And so what we’ve really developed to is are mechanisms to implement and have action. So we’ve developed working groups of people, again with representation. All the six groups that I mentioned to you, with some with some rules, only one representative per organization, so that no one organization dominates the conversation that we have the representation of all the six groups that I’ve mentioned. And a commitment of those that are there that they’re going to roll up their sleeves and get the work done. They’re not just there to listen. They’re not just there to complain. They’re going to come up with solutions themselves and work together to achieve that and take on responsibilities. It’s not going to just as executive director, it’s not all on me. I see the members of the alliance. We’re in this together. We’re working on finding solutions together, and there’s some accountability for that, which I think really helps to say we’re going to mentor ourselves. We’re going to say, these are we’ll have quarterly roundtables on specific issues. We’ll release reports after with recommendations, and then we’re going to measure what do we get enacted. And so what it’s going to implement and where do we fall short, why and how to keep moving forward.

Bill Sherman And you mentioned something that I think is critical for thought leadership. Is that strong bias for action, right? It’s more than just being a futurist, looking into the future and seeing a possible risk or opportunity. It’s that ability to see that future bring it back to people today and help them understand the importance of it as well as know what they can do, either individually or collectively to prepare or solve a problem. Because many people sort of whether it’s learned helplessness or, you know, the tragedy of commons, they don’t step up to solve a problem and they assume it’s someone else’s responsibility. But if you break it down into something clear and manageable, especially in something like this, where it’s public policy, where it’s a good and I don’t think anyone would argue that dementia care should be awful, but no one has owned it and said we have to make this better.

Nora Super Yeah, I think that that is such a big part of it. And when you were speaking to it just made me think about that collection, collective action, part of that, and of working together to achieve that. And so, you know, I believe strongly that hope trumps fear. And so people need some hope that things could get better and that we can make progress. And I think that that will certainly have some setbacks. You know, we’ve certainly you know, the devastating pandemic has changed the way we think about this. But I’m also a very positive thinker to what is the silver lining here? How can we take advantage of this horrible situation to bring about positive change in the future? And I think people really need to, just as a human kind, need to feel like you’re making progress and moving forward and to check some people when they come in and they said, I consider myself to be a solution finder. I prefer that term over a problem solver just because I think it’s really looking at we’re looking for solutions and we’re going to work together to find.

Bill Sherman As we start to wrap up, I want to ask a question, some practical advice, if you will, to people who are in a position where they see a problem that’s larger, that they can solve themselves or even their organization can solve. What practical tips and I know the institute was one approach and an alliances approach. Right. What advice would you give for someone who’s thinking, I need to tackle a big problem? They have the passion and they’re trying to figure out how do they bring people on board, whether it’s something to definitely do, something to avoid. Here’s your chance to give someone advice.

Nora Super Sure. You know, I think that networking is critical. As we discussed earlier. I think the relationship building part is who are the people that you admire and you think could make a difference? You’d be surprised how many people are willing to talk to you if you just flatter them a little bit and say, hey, I really admire your work. I just think you’re great. You have 30 minutes that I can ask you a few questions about how you got to be where you are today. And that can often start a dialog that leads to many other conversations of connections to other people. Really build your network so that you can have the right people in the room. Ask these people that you admire who they think should be in the room, and often they’ll make introductions for you. They may be bored. Also, as I mentioned, you know, try not to duplicate efforts. I think a lot of people think they have an idea that’s brand new and haven’t really done their homework to see what else is out there. So do your homework. Make sure you really looked at what’s out there, who’s trying to tackle it. Is it really a gap? Could you join another effort that’s ongoing and maybe bring your passion to that effort? I think that, you know, and then finally, you know, if you want to be a thought leader, then you have to have some creative thoughts. And I think, you know, people want to hear things that are new and different. So think about testing out your ideas. You know, I often say we’re in in Washington and certainly scientific circles, people use acronyms or they use clinical terms that are very off putting for people who don’t understand that world. And they tune out right away because they don’t understand what the person’s talking about. So I advise people that I work with all my teams to talk about this as if you’re describing to your grandmother what you do. How would you talk to your grandmother about it? And that just puts you in a different mindset of you’re not trying to wow them with your statistics or your acronyms. You’re telling more of a story. And storytelling can really be a persuasive way to get people to see what you’re, what you’re after. So it doesn’t have to be your grandmother. It could be your five year old niece, but just someone that you may need to not talk to in the way that you would normally talk to. And how do you think you could get them to care about an issue? I’ve found that I use that all the time, and it was really helpful to hone my message and think about things. You know, as a writer, too, I would say people often say like, you know, they’ll write reams and reams of information. I try to be as concise as possible and making your case. Everyone’s busy these days. You know, they call it an elevator speech because it should only last as long as it takes to go up in the elevator. And I found in my, you know, the highest levels of power in the White House. People are really busy. So you need to know how to make your point clearly, concisely and quickly. And I think that oftentimes people want to show everything they’ve learned and give you all the information that they have. And most people don’t have time to read your 30 page report. But if you want to get them interested, what can you put in the opening paragraph that’s really going to get their attention and go, I should read this. This is important.

Bill Sherman And I think a lot of people, whether it’s a white paper or anything else, tend to bury the lead. And in one of the themes that I’ve heard in this conversation is lead a little bit with passion, right? Show why you care and help them understand why they should care. Right. So so if people are interested in the Alliance to improve Dementia care or they want to get in touch with you, where should they go? How should they do that?

Nora Super Sure. Absolutely. Just go to the Milken Institute website. So it’s just not an institute.org. And if you put dementia in the search, it’ll come up for you, the alliance, It will show you how to connect. You can also just send me a note for a link, Dan or I can also look me up on the Institute website where really this is again an issue that I’m passionate about, but it’s a very, very difficult problem. It takes so many players and we’re actually excitingly, you know, have just partnered with Alzheimer’s Society in the UK. So we see this as a global issue, really as a global issue. And so if you know any of your listeners that are abroad. Not as well. Really? See, this is something we all have to work together. So would be happy to bring as many people under this big tent as possible.

Bill Sherman Wonderful. Nora, thank you for taking time to chat with us today and share your experiences in Thought leadership, convening power and then building the Alliance.

Nora Super Great. Thank you, Bill. It’s a pleasure.

Bill Sherman If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please join our LinkedIn group. Organizational Thought Leadership. It’s a professional community where thought leadership practitioners talk shop about our field. So if you’re someone who creates curates or deploys thought leadership for your organization, then please join the conversation in the organizational thought Leadership LinkedIn.