Experience Design in Thought Leadership | Ali Ahmed

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Using Experience Design in Thought Leadership

An interview with Ali Ahmed about putting the user at the center of the experience.

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How do you make thought leadership ideas accessible so that people understand them quickly?  It is one of the essential tasks of a thought leadership practitioner. They must make the invisible, visible.

Today’s guest is Ali Ahmed. Ali is the Director of Thought Leadership at Fidelity Investments and leads a team of thought leaders within the company. He has a strong background in experience design that he incorporates into the content they create.

Ali and Bill discuss the intersection of thought leadership and experience design. Bill asks how Ali weaves fact and evidence with storytelling and in what ways Ali avoids to create the emotion response to call to action.

They examine two of the audiences the thought leadership team focuses on. And Ali explains the modalities used to help people along their financial journey that is often not a straight line.  Afterwards, they talk about how these techniques ensure the user is at the center of the journey. Finally, Ali explains what they do to avoid overwhelming the user and make their work more accessible to their audience.

Three Key Takeaways

• When creating thought leadership, make it impactful in a way that will inspire people to action.
• Thought leadership that focuses on the experience of the user is better than content that overwhelms the user with data.
• Thought leaders need to understand when and where to insert themselves into the conversation.

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And if you need help scaling organizational thought leadership, contact Thought Leadership Leverage!

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Transcript

Bill Sherman Hello. You’re listening to Leveraging Thought Leadership. I’m your host, Bill Sherman. And today we’re talking about one of my personal passions, organizational thought leadership. We’re sitting down with the people who create, curate and deploy felt leadership on behalf of their organizations. How do you make thought leadership ideas accessible so that people can understand them quickly? It’s one of the essential tasks of a thought leadership practitioner. We have to make the invisible visible. I’ve asked Aliya Schmidt, director of Thought Leadership at Fidelity Investments, to help me explore that question today. Ali sits on the workplace thought leadership team and he approaches his work with curiosity and delight. I’m eager to talk with him about the intersection of thought, leadership and experience design. What’s the experience of an idea? We’ll talk about the tools and techniques you can use to get someone to an embrace, an idea more quickly and more fully. Ready? Let’s begin. Welcome to the show, Ali.

Ali Ahmed Thanks, Bill.

Bill Sherman So I’ve done the introduction and said you’re director of thought leadership at Fidelity. What does that mean? What are you working on? Give us a little bit of context.

Ali Ahmed So I’m actually one of a few folks of a really excellent team of thought leaders, and we are more aligned to the workplace and understand the future of work and really thinking about how plan sponsors are employers can make and as well as they their employees, a better place. So more specifically, I’m aligned to retirement income or the future of retirement and making sure that folks have the ability to transition into retirement safely and securely and really thinking about what they wanted to do really comes to fruition.

Bill Sherman Can you give an example of some of the work that you’ve been doing and who’s the audience are you trying to reach? Are you trying to reach the plan, sponsors, individuals? Give a little more context.

Ali Ahmed So it’s I’m very fortunate because our target market is everyone under the sun. So I really get to choose if I’m really focusing on participant material or the employee material or for employer plan sponsor material. So but because I mean, those are it’s all about the number of users, right? So if my primary target is is a plan sponsor, then the secondary target is going to be obviously the employee and it goes back and forth. So they speak into each other. So I’m working on really a few things really. But one of the things that I’m really proud about is understanding how do we kind of look at the way that we provide financial advice in a in a in a different light? So right now, I’m creating a monthly series about understanding what threatens financial security and retirement for certain underserved communities. So, for example, we kicked off February with what threatens financial security and retirement for black Americans, and we looked at systemic kind of inequity within the system. So when we provide advice and ask people to move from point A to point B in their financial journey, sometimes we have to understand that’s not a straight line. And there might be certain barriers cultural, systemic, historic, whatever may be, that often complicates that line to get there. So as I was mentioning for February, we looked at for Black History Month what there is financial security for black Americans. For March, we wrapped up a piece around how the gender gap impacts retirement. And then actually right now for April, finishing up a piece for Autism Awareness Month, understanding the economic cost and impact of autism on individuals with autism, as well as their families and caregivers.

Bill Sherman So when you say you’re working on a piece for that, what sort of modalities are you creating in.

Ali Ahmed So right now, I think one of the things that we wanted to do was make sure that we captured the moment for urgency and not necessarily overthink about this. So we’ve created I have a fantastic designer that I work with who really helps me capture the storytelling piece. So we have these long form infographics because one of the things that we were playing with before, do we create a longer white paper? Do we try to do this? And I think some of the feedback we got like, Allie, I love this, this is really impactful, but I feel really, really depressed and down after it. So we wanted to create a piece that would be quick, impactful and also inspired people to do something after they saw it. They’re like, okay, I see what’s going on. So we have a longform infographic that’s coupled by, I guess, the three prong approach of how we how I like to embody thought. Leadership is primary research or senior secondary research, primary research, and then call to action.

Bill Sherman So let’s talk about that structure because that’s interesting. So you talk about research, secondary and primary. Let’s break down into both of those. Where are they coming from? What are you bring to the table yourself from the research and from Fidelity’s perspective as well as where are you drawing information?

Ali Ahmed So I want to like give credit to my one of my teammates who, you know, articulated an approach about thought leadership should be a three, three legged stool. And she said that primary secondary research and then the point of a point of view or the storytelling component of it. So the research that we’re getting, the primary research is often from one of the things that we wanted to do, because sometimes this topic of looking at systemic inequity or understanding, well, are there really issues within the way that our society is structured can be problematic for a lot of folks and can be troublesome. People can be like you’re pushing the agenda. So we wanted to kind of mitigate any of those kinds of arguments and get pushback. So the data that I’m using from a secondary sources from the federal government, so it is a treasure trove of just data so that the census data, the Department of Labor and then the Federal Reserve. And so one thing that’s amazing is that the tools that they’ve built out allow you to really be mindful about the kinds of questions, and then you can just send a source out that way. And then the primary research is often I got standing on the shoulders of giants at our at our company. So there’s been a lot of effort around how do we make our work more approachable and more accessible to a changing customer base. So I leverage a lot of the research that comes from our other teammates and our research. Talented research and insights seem to be able to figure out, okay, I would love to take this piece or next piece and add it to to kind of augment our story and then our call to action to give folks. Okay, So you now are aware of the problem. You see that it’s coming from all over. It’s just isolated to one so small segment. Now, what can you do about it? Give people concrete actions to do so. Things like understanding how to increase financial literacy for providing more education, whether it be understanding, reviewing, plan design to make sure that, hey, is this meeting the needs of my people? Are they actually doing what they’re supposed to do? Because otherwise why offer benefits if they benefit no one?

Bill Sherman So let’s drill down a little bit on the concept of storytelling. And you mentioned when you were doing longer form pieces that people are going, okay, I feel almost overwhelmed or depressed looking at this. Right. And the way you’ve described it in terms of secondary and primary research is very fact driven. How are you weaving fact in evidence with storytelling to create the emotional response to get to that call to action? Because data alone is a really weak set up for call to action, right where you just go. Fact one, fact two therefore you should do this.

Ali Ahmed I, I think this I have to herald this back to two previous careers. Right. And so in how my career has evolved over time. So I start off my career as a high school chemistry and physics teacher. So chemistry and physics in itself is already an abstract concept. Most people will roll their eyes or every time I would share that people like, I hated it, or it was so difficult and I was responsible to teaching that to kids that were in their, you know, teenagers. So how do you make something so complex and so abstract and so ridiculous in nature? Approachable and accessible. And I think that is trying to that value has driven through the storytelling component.

Bill Sherman Can you give me an example on that, whether it’s teaching with kids or then how you carry that forward in in your thought leadership work? Make that concrete?

Ali Ahmed Yeah. So I often have say this to you shouldn’t you know, and I said this when I was in Amtrak, I said this that when I was teaching and I said this now, like I think most, most like most recently, I said I shouldn’t have to have an MBA to understand how to manage my money. I shouldn’t and be a train conductor to understand how to ride a train at Amtrak. I shouldn’t have to be a chemistry teacher or a chemistry major or a super scientist to understand how to do high school chemistry. And I think that’s the component is how do we make this conversational? I it’s a I think this is based just in a scientific reporting kind of way. Your report should stand alone as if the person that you never met before, a stranger would be able to read and understand everything about it. But at the same point, you have to be like, not everyone has invested that number of hours that you put into a piece. So how do you make something entertaining, esthetically pleasing, as well as impactful to say like, okay, I’m investing a few minutes of my time to read this piece, Is it worth my while? And I think that makes me think about the storytelling piece. Is this really worth it? There were so many pieces of data that we had to leave off the off the pieces because we’re like, Where does this even fit? Who’s asking for this? And really thinking, is this really making somebody inspired to do something about it? So when we were looking at the first piece around black Americans and what threatens their financial security, I could have gone into so many different directions. So one specific statistic we talk about is most people look at their retirement plan or their houses as a retirement plan. I live in Boston, and so people will often say, I bought here in South for 25 years ago and my house is now worth 3 million. That’s my retirement plan. I’m glad that happened. Well, I would love to have gone into a giant history and deep dive of redlining and making sure that folks understood like, hey, not that that the ability to purchase a house and build wealth and a house wasn’t always available, but it didn’t fit. And so we give snippets.

Bill Sherman Well, and there are neighborhoods that were destroyed even generations ago that for the building of interstate highways and that which really impacted wealth creation.

Ali Ahmed Going. Yeah. And you know, I would love to be able to say, you know, hopefully we can inspire a spark, generate somebody like emotion like hold your phones are right next to you. Hopefully maybe you want to Google that stat that you saw and then you can go down your own deep dive. But really, it’s about kind of leaving these breadcrumbs along the way in order. So just for folks to understand how to engage in a meaningful conversation later on.

Bill Sherman Well, and that’s interesting, right? So you’re providing the stepping stones in the conversation to lead to that call to action. But like you said, breadcrumbs, so that if somebody wants to go forth and search and fall down the Wikipedia rabbit hole, they can. Right.

Ali Ahmed And, you know, it’s the way it’s about relationships, right?

Bill Sherman Everything is say more on that.

Ali Ahmed Yeah. So is a driven thing, like when I meet somebody, I don’t want to overwhelm them with my whole life history and all these things. I want to make sure that, hey, I’m feeling this person out. I want to make sure that it’s I want to hang out with this person again. And I think that’s the way that I also look at the work that I’m doing, too, is how do I get somebody to come back when I say I want to hang out with that person again and hang out with them? What they’re saying to. And so if I have that kind of approachable mindset and that human aspect about it, that kind of. Moves down the really highly could be academic or cerebral nature of some of this work.

Bill Sherman Well, and one of the things that I’ve enjoyed in our conversations is the genuine warmth that you put into every conversation. It’s not just dry you can hear, and I hope the listeners can as well. The passion that you have for the topics that you’re working on and when you’re present in conversation. And I think that also shows up in your work as well. If you’re knocking out a piece hypothetically just because you’ve got to put out a piece because it’s February and therefore we need a piece to publish that’s going to be different than here’s the story we want to tell, and here’s an important story to tell, and here’s why we’re passionate about it.

Ali Ahmed Bill. That’s a very kind thing to say. Like you’ll find out. Obviously, I don’t do well with compliments, but thank you very much. So, you know, I. I remember a story when a kid when I was teaching, he said, this is not just busywork, is it? Like, is this really going to be graded or something? If it is, then I’ll invest in it. And that really, like struck me as a young, as a young teacher, as a young professional. It’s like people are giving you a very. Valuable resource their time and attention. And so if that is done. Like, don’t take it lightly. Like don’t waste it and gift people back, like make it worth their while. And I think that’s where my mindset has always been about making sure that the work that if you you were asking me to do something about it, then okay, let’s make sure that we give you the best option ever.

Bill Sherman Well, and that leads to the concept of curating thought leadership, right? It’s not just presenting data for the sake of presenting data. Here is something worthy of your time, attention and most importantly, action. Right. And I think that’s the difference between the factoid of the infographic versus something that’s the emotional call to action. If you are enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you’d like to help spread the word about the podcast, please leave a five-star review and share it with your friends. We are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all major platforms as well as at LeveragingThoughtLeadership.com.

Bill Sherman Now you put a little bit of picture of your career. You’ve mentioned some of the stepping stones from teaching and Amtrack and FEMA. You’ve got a background in experience design as well. How do these inform what you do in practicing thought leadership? How does experience design make you a better athlete that you should practitioner?

Ali Ahmed So I think you can take a few of UX practices or design practices and principles and put them into motion. One we always talk about put the user in the center of the journey and make sure you understand. Very similar approach to my walking you through from point A to point B in a very clear and concise fashion. The other one I would say is we don’t want to bury the page in too many clicks, right? You don’t want to have a person go through multiple, multiple pages to find what you want them to do. And the same thing happens here. So as much as I would love to drone on about certain things, I was like, editing is, is amazing and make sure that we actually take out as much as possible and drive people to what’s going on. So I think the is about brevity being a lost a lost art and also putting the human being in the center of every single thing that we do and really making sure that we speak to that audience has been a consistent value that I’ve driven from teaching experience, design, and then also that thought leadership.

Bill Sherman So I want to build on that. And I want to call out to something that’s in your LinkedIn profile that really stood out to me in terms of three questions. Why is this the way it is? How do we make this better and what’s next? And when I look at those three, those really strike at the heart of failed leadership. Right. What is it? How do we make sense of it and how can we make it better?

Ali Ahmed Yeah. You know, I just I think if anything in the last year, hopefully getting asking that question of like, are we okay with the way that things are has become a question that probably comes out of more people’s minds than ever before. Right. I think we’re now aware of like, is the system even set up properly for folks to do this? And I think that’s why design has a really fantastic opportunity to really push the needle in terms of like reinforcing how do we make the world a better place and more equitable and more approachable and accessible for all kinds of people. And so I think rather than we often jump into problem solving that because we’re human beings and we love to, we have to do that. And we’re like, all right, we try to make this as acute as possible and go after the small little needle and we just like, That’s it. And you’re like, You know what? Take a step back and realize, how did that issue even arise? Is this something that’s a symptom or is this actually like a larger a larger thing here? And so having a more holistic view gets me going and understanding like what’s going on. It also informs how I kind of think about the messaging and also the kind of release of the work. Because if you’re hyperfocus with your like blinders on, you may lose sight of stakeholders. You may lose sight of individuals that might be helpful and really think about allies along the way. And then also kind of enablers or more about like promoters of what you’re trying to do. Taking a step back is important to understand. Whoa, Why is this the way that it is? It’s not just one person that did it. It’s a culmination of a lot of different things. So how do we get here? Somebody might have inherited this situation. So a lot of the work that I’m doing is not done in a silo. I remember we’re doing this larger research effort and I reached out to 45 different people across the firm. And somebody came up was like, Ali, are you crazy? Are you trying to slow down your work? I was like, listen, if we don’t reach out and get people’s understanding, we’re going to have kind of a siloed product that people are going to throw away. Said that this isn’t fit my needs. All their part is that someone gets aware of what we’re doing and then they’re like, Why was I not part of this conversation? Exclusion is the worst way to do anything, and that’s not inclusive kind of leadership in that part. It also could throw, you know, kind of a stop in our work because someone says, I wasn’t involved, I didn’t sign off on this. And then boom, got all those months of work could be done and that could have just been mitigated by just saying, hey, I just want to have a conversation. Does this make sense? And from that list of 45 didn’t start off at 45, we started off with like ten. And then people like, you should go talk to this person. They would be helpful. They if they’re not working on anything now, but they have historic knowledge about this. And so all of a sudden, I now have people like, I love I can’t wait to see what’s happening. I think that is in a company as large as fidelity, it can get daunting to figure out like, how do you make work come out the door? How do you do that? I think it’s about the stakeholders is such an important key of like getting people to understand what the vision is, understanding what you’re trying to do with it, and why you’re asking them to change the status quo. Why are you breaking that inertia that we that you referenced earlier? So in order to do that, that’s where the key is. And so asking those kinds of questions are helpful and they kind of reframe how I approach other folks as well.

Bill Sherman And including people in on the process during development helps you be build the evangelist and the champions that you need. Because even if you think about an organization as large as Fidelity, getting an idea to be heard within the walls of fidelity takes a lot of work on its own, let alone to create a call to action beyond. And so how do you amplify? One idea elevated enough so that people start talking about it and going, I should talk about this with my client or I should talk about it in the next meeting with my peers. Often people are looking for not only their input, but they’ve got many things that they could bring up in conversation. And we’ve talked about this relational aspect and appreciating a sense of time. If you equip them with something that is worth their time and they feel invested in it, they’re going to bring it up. And it goes further.

Ali Ahmed Absolutely. You know, my experience is only limited to my experience. Right? Right. Right. You experience that. So why would I not add more advantages to what I’m trying to do? Right. I don’t I think, you know, there might be this effective use like, I’m going to hide away and then cut out and then surprise everybody. That’s not how things are done. That’s on TV and that’s in movies where people will say they’re creative, you know, person or whatever. The genius that hides behind things like real. To me, real work is really done with people because if it’s for people, then that’s who you need to be working with. And I think that’s the component here that I’m like trying to drive is like really understand the power of collaboration and really thinking about how do you work cooperatively in order to make things work.

Bill Sherman So you mentioned at the top of the conversation working with the team. Describe the team that you work with in how it’s structured and give a sense of because there are many different ways that the leadership teams are set up and where they’re positioned in the organization. So give a little bit of context for our listeners there.

Ali Ahmed So we sit within the workplace side of the business. So we have a couple we have like four personal folks that are like the brokerage customers, like the ones I want to have set up their own kind of investing account that’s out of the business. And then the folks that the other side of it and amongst the many other kind of things. But the two key ones are, you know, private customers or personal customers. And then also the folks that are often get their fidelity for one gig, their manager, the volunteer, manage them. So we sit underneath the workplace side of bit of the world, and within there we sit within the market with a customer strategy marketing division, and we’re paired up with the Research and Insights group as well. So I work with five different people. And so of those individuals, everyone is aligned to roughly aligned to a certain topic. So somebody might be a lunch of diversity, inclusion, somebody might be involved or aligned to advice like an advisor and somebody might be aligned to financial wellness. And then there’s another individual on our team that’s also aligned to the global component of things. And so we collaborate in this. I think this is what I love about our team is that there’s levels of experience inside the team and then also outside of the team as well as just like we’re all in different topics, right? And so I often will just say, Hey, I’m working on this piece. Can I get some feedback here? And we share those things. And so same thing goes, happens like, hey, working on this piece, it’s a very good it’s an amazing group of practitioners that I get to rely on and then also become the central point of advice for a lot of business units within the firm. So it’s like, what are we doing here? We need to get thought leadership here. And so we often have this role of quasi consultant where folks will just say, I have some random thoughts here. What do you think? And can you give me something? And that’s where we’ve kind of position ourselves with those.

Bill Sherman Well. And if I remember correctly, when we were talking about a year ago, you were talking about educating the rest of the organization as to who are those folks in thought leadership and what is it that they do? When should we talk to them? Right.

Ali Ahmed Yeah. You know, I. I will say that when we first met up, a lot’s changed, and I think a lot has evolved. All in good nature. I think it’s really thinking about, like, where do you fit into this conversation? Where does it make sense to, to do this and, and where does it make sense to insert yourself into it? I think part of one of the things that I learned is that and will continue to learn is I don’t necessarily need to be part of every single conversation. It’s really just take a step back and say, Am I really adding value here? Or I do. I just want to be here because I just feel like I need to be here. And so I think we’ve been doing that over the last couple of months is really being strategic and thoughtful about how we show up and when we show up.

Bill Sherman As we begin to wrap up this conversation, I want to ask you a question. You’ve been on a journey where you came into the world of thought leadership. And like many people, it’s a new step into the journey. Right? And you’re saying, okay, what can I draw on from the past and what should I be doing in the future? I want you to offer advice to yourself. You know where you’ve got the new title, Director of Thought Leadership. That first day. What would you advise yourself now based on what you’ve learned?

Ali Ahmed There’s so much advice I would give to myself. So go.

Bill Sherman  So go for it.

Ali Ahmed Go for it. I think it’s funny because I think when I when we first chatted, like roughly a year ago, I was as I was over my skis, I felt like really overwhelmed because I was just like, this title seems like overly daunting. Everything seems a lot. And I think the what I would say is the first part of our name is thought right. And I was like, okay, just let’s lean into that component of it, the thought component that everything has to have a word or a piece of advice, just like sit back and think about what’s happening. I think that has been helpful because I will say, like, honestly speaking, I didn’t know a job like this existed a couple of years ago and.

Bill Sherman Many of them didn’t exist a couple of years ago.

Ali Ahmed I think that’s one of the things I was I have been I’ve been cutting myself a lot of slack and said, you know, this field is pretty amazing. And at least in this space and the way that it’s being recognized and okay. So like part of it, there might not even be an answer. And that’s okay. So just take a step back, understand what’s happening, what can you do? And is it like understanding if you need help, reach out for it? If you need to get advice, I’m sorry. Reach out. Like, I think that’s where it’s just like if I had to sum it up, I was like, Be patient. Wait a moment and understand that if you’re going to move mountains, you can’t do it in a single push. You can’t do it alone either. Right. And it’s a long standing effort. That’s takes time. I think that has been like the driving force that I was like, you have to have a sense of urgency as well as a deep level of patience with this work and make sure that you drive that all the way through. And I think that’s what I would remind myself over and over again, even when I feel overwhelmed or like, I don’t know. I don’t know how I’m going to get all this done or no one’s listening to me. How do I get this? It’s just like, Hey, you’re not going to change everything in a moment. Like, let’s figure out how to alter the story. Let’s figure out what other data points missing that people are not resonating with. Or let’s understand like, what about the story needs to be better in order to get more people to listen.

Bill Sherman And I think that’s powerful. And when we work on thought leadership, we’re often tackling important problems. And the important problems are complex. They come to us with preexisting stories. We’re joining in the middle of the story. Things are not just brand new as of today. We’re not starting from a blank sheet of paper. And then most importantly. Because they’re complex. We need others. And so with that, if. And I like how you said you’ve got to be passionate but patient about it and so know that it’s important, but it’s going to take time and persistence. And I think that’s a great sort of capstone of the mindset of a thought leadership practitioner. I want to thank you all for joining us today. This has been a great conversation.

Ali Ahmed Thanks, Bill. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Bill Sherman If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please join our LinkedIn group. Organizational Thought Leadership. It’s a professional community where thought leadership practitioners talk shop about our field. So if you’re someone who creates curates or deploys thought leadership for your organization, then please join the conversation in the organizational thought Leadership LinkedIn.