Leveraging Thought Leadership With Peter Winick – Episode 114 – Ken Blanchard

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The publishing world is changing quickly, as technology evolves at lightning-speed. Are traditional publishers still relevant? No one knows how the publishing world has changed better than today’s guest!

Ken Blanchard is the author of the best-selling book “The One Minute Manager”, as well as “Leading at a Higher Level”, “The Simple Truths of Service” and more than 60 other books. He’s been honored by Amazon’s Hall of Fame as a best-selling author, and is one of the most influential leadership experts in the world.

Ken shares his decades of experience about traditional publishing and how it has changed with the influx of modern technology. He also talks about ways to capitalize on various platforms of authorship, and how some publishers are changing to stay relevant in the new market.

Plus, Ken and Peter discuss Ken’s unique methods of gaining feedback for his books, and the various revision cycles he goes through before taking his manuscript to a publisher. If you’re working on your latest and greatest thought leadership manuscript, this is the podcast for you!

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If you need a strategy to bring your thought leadership to market, Thought Leadership Leverage can assist you! Contact us for more information. In addition, we can help you implement marketing, research, and sales. Let us help you so you can devote yourself to what you do best.

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Transcript

Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I’m the founder and CEO of Thought Leadership Leverage. And you’re joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. I am truly in awe of our guest today and honored that he has decided to join us today. So he doesn’t need an introduction, but I will do so anyway. So I have Ken Blanchard on with us today and is one of the most influential leadership experts in the world. He’s the coauthor of the iconic bestseller The One Minute Manager and more than 65 other books whose total sales have exceeded 22 million copies. In 2005, he was inducted to Amazon’s Hall of Fame as one of the 25 bestselling authors of all time. He’s the Ken Blanchard Company has been around for a long, long time and has been in the business of deploying leadership development to people in the workplace for many, many years. But Ken, thank you so much for joining us today.

Ken Blanchard Well, Peter, it’s a it’s a joy. This is our 40th year in business. Can you imagine?

Peter Winick I think it’s going to work out okay for you. Yeah, I think there’ll be 40 more and then some. So I don’t even know where to start. Maybe. Why don’t we start backwards and say sort of tell us about some of the changes, some of the many changes that you’ve seen in the marketplace over the years and how you’ve adjusted to take advantage of them, be that on the publishing side or the leadership development side? What’s different today?

Ken Blanchard Well, it’s interesting. You know, when Spencer Johnson and I got together, he was a children’s book writer, wrote the whole series called Value Tales The Value of Honesty, The Story of Abe Lincoln, the value of courage, the Story of a killer. And my wife met him at this cocktail party and she and carried him over and said, You guys ought to write a children’s book for managers. They will read anything else. And so that’s how we got started. He was working on a one minute scolding with a psychiatrist, and a similarity came up running at the end and said, Forget parenting. Let’s do the one minute manager’s Since he was a children’s book writer and I’m a storyteller, we decided to write a parable because our favorite books were the Jonathan Livingston, Sue Siegel and The Little Prince and Augmentin, right. And so we started writing short parables. And I think that was really new in the market in 1982. I don’t think there had been any business books that were parable type books. And now you’ll see a lot of them. Patrick Lynch really has done a great job with parables with the addition of at the end in the appendix he goes into more depth in the in the concepts. But so that was a new thing in the market. I, I think that people are still looking for easy to read simple stuff that they can use. And I think sometimes people just, you know, read too much know. I always say to people, you know, you might have 3 or 4 books in there. I did write a big book recently called Servant Leadership in Action. I got 44 contributors. But most readings, books, the articles are too long, and this is all the articles are about six, 6 or 7 pages. So I tell people it’s a great bathroom for people.

Peter Winick Yeah, exactly. And while you’re sitting there. But so, so, so but let me ask you then. So in 1982, when you put the book in parable form, if we think about some of the parallels there, that was that was a fairly radical or unconventional modality to put a business book in. Right? And if we you know, fast forward almost 40 years from that, there’s lots of other ways and modalities that business content gets deployed that people wouldn’t have taken seriously, you know, five years ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago. Whether that’s short form video, whether that’s pull down library. So talk a little bit about that, because I think one of the breakthroughs in the one minute manager besides the content was really good. You didn’t take the format so seriously and were willing to experiment with a modality.

Ken Blanchard Yes. And I think today technology has done tremendous. The publishing, you know, because hardcover books that people can have in their hands, they still sell. But most people. So more books online or shorter do video kinds of things. I think you need to really be open to it. And I see, Peter, a lot of people going to self-publishing today because with all the different ways to publicize your stuff, you know, one of the things that I think the publishing companies haven’t done a great job is, is that is the publicity. They want an author who can get out there and sell it themselves, you know.

Peter Winick Well, and there’s a catch 22 there. Right? So what the publishers want is an author that can bring an audience to sell the books through. And if you actually take that thinking one step further, if an author has a platform that. No followership that they can sell books through. Do you really need the publisher?

Ken Blanchard That’s really the that’s really the question. So it’s really I think the publishers have to be more innovative. We’ve done a number of things in the last few years with Barry Koehler because, yes, we first Sun, I think was creative. They only do 15 books a year about and they really focus on them and they have an author’s day which no copies would go up there and you meet everybody from every department and they talk about how they’re going to help you with your book and you really feel like you are part of an organization and you can call anybody and talk to anybody. And so I think that’s been a good one. And they’re also getting good at finding online stuff. So I think the publishers have to be more innovative now to.

Peter Winick Yeah, I think that’s right. Well, I’m part of what Barret Cutler does, to their credit, is create a community because there’s only so much I as a publisher, can do to support you. But one of the things that I can do that’s actually quite cost effective is to put together a community of publishers that can share best practices and help support one another and those things. And I think that’s it’s that level of evolved thinking is that that is changing in the publishers world.

Ken Blanchard Yes, it really is.

Peter Winick So I want to switch for a moment from publishing, which we could talk for hours on, given the depth of your experience there to sort of the importance of really having a solid framework, methodology and model. So I’ll go back to situational leadership. And one of the things that I think is beautiful about it is it’s timeless. Right. And because the model is so strong, there’s not much room for interpretation outside of the intent of the model. So could you tell a little bit about how you came to develop that model and where that’s taken you?

Ken Blanchard Yes. Paul Hursey and I met at Ohio University back in the in the 60s and taught a leadership course. And I came to be the administrative assistant to the dean. You get a kick out of it. All of my faculty members went to graduate school, said that if I wanted to be at the university, I should be an administrator. And because I couldn’t write. But as they told you, I think they can understand it. And then I took her to this course, and at the end of the course she came to me and said, I can’t. I’ve been in this business for ten years. And I think I know more than anybody else. And they want me to write a textbook, but that’s not my forte, the whole writing aspect, I’m sure. But I’ve been looking for a good writer like you because it made me take this course that he read my papers. And so we decided to write a textbook management of organizational behavior utilizing human resources. And so we really understood the field and what was happening there. And off of that, we started to see that there were some problems with some of the key models, and we ended up developing situational leadership. We initially called it life Cycle theory of Leadership. And then in I think, a third edition of our book, we introduced situational leadership, but it’s been out for well over 40 years and is still widely used. And we started our company. We developed what we called at that times the situational leadership to ourselves to kind of our version of situational leadership. But it’s really common sense organized. I think that’s what people want know because when they come to training, they go, Whoa, why didn’t I think of this? You know? And so I think that people writing ought to be thinking about their audiences more than they think about trying to appear like they’re really bright, you know, they know everything.

Peter Winick So but let’s talk about that, because I think there are a lot of folks that write. And part of the motivation might be maybe it’s ego, maybe it’s to show you’re the smartest guy or guy or gal in the room or to sort of show off this new research that you’ve done our way of thinking. But this this genuine, approachable ness of all that you’ve done, I think has been sort of probably the secret to your success is making it not simple but digestible.

Ken Blanchard Yes. And Spencer really push me on that because when we did a first draft, the one minute manager, everybody loved it. And I said, Let’s go to New York and get a publisher. He said, No, they don’t know what. So hit us over the head and take all the money, right? He said, I think we should get feedback. And so we actually self-published it and sent it out all kinds of people. And in fact, that’s been a pattern of mine. I don’t release a book to a publisher until I’ve at least said four different feedback sessions. And after each feedback session I gather the feedback and rewrite whatever people suggest suggested I think makes sense. And so when I know I really have a good book is when people say, Look, I’ll pay $20 for a Xerox copy of this thing. You know, I don’t I don’t want to wait till it comes out. And I think a lot of times people write until they and their editor like it. Well, you’re not writing for yourself and your editor. You’re writing for your readers, and that’s why you want to give them a chance to give you feedback.

Peter Winick That’s fantastic. So let’s talk for a minute. You know, when you were trying to get feedback and I like your four cycles of feedback to sort of get the book to the highest level, doing that 30 years ago, I mean, that’s focus groups and that’s a lot of work, right? Doing that now with the power of the Internet is so easy to do and you can get that feedback globally. So how do you go about tell me a little bit about your process of getting feedback on your content before it’s a, you know, ready to ship book that we’re all going to love?

Ken Blanchard I. We have a summer cottage in upstate New York near Syracuse on Skinny Outlook Lake. And there a little country club there. That’s perfect because they get G executives and teachers and farmers and all. So I put out a word in our newsletter that I got a new book I’m writing. And if you want to pick up a draft copy in the manager’s office and come to a certain date, I’ll buy you dinner. If you fill out, fill out the feedback form and come and I usually get 50, 60 people come. Wow. And I tell them it’s a buffet. And I say, during dinner, the job at your table is to come up with agreement on three things you really like about the book. Three things you think should be changed to make it the best book you’ve ever read the subject and the best title that you can come up with besides the one that’s on it. And then after dinner, I go around with a microphone and a recorder and they report out. And then people also give me their forms. And it’s really an amazing process because you get you learn so much. You know, like I wrote a book with Norman Vincent Peale when he was 86 years old. And I said, my mother did. The Norman and his wife, Ruth were going to come up for the feedback session. So I had over 300 people that night. Wow. And after I went around to get feedback, I asked Norman to share with the group and he got up and he said he said, I’ve never been for a free for all like this in my life. He said, When I finish a book, Ruth and I pray. He doesn’t trust that process, but he has the biggest kick out of it, you know? Well, they’re.

Peter Winick Not mutually exclusive. You could do both, I guess.

Ken Blanchard I know some people do it online and all, but I. I kind of like the personal stuff. And it’s really interesting. Like, you know, you’ll get titles. I wrote a book with the two top whale trainers at SeaWorld’s, and I recalled it from killer whale to kids in the power plant. And one of the tables when we went around, they said, Why don’t you call it Well done, Duh. So of course, that became the book that it became a bestseller, you know. And so you could learn a lot of stuff, but you have to be feedback. And I’ve always said it’s the breakfast of champions colleague of mine, Rick Day, taught me that years ago. But as long as you don’t get defensive and you want to make it the best book possible, then listen.

Peter Winick That’s fantastic. So I want to move now into sort of what I would say is the bread and butter of most leadership development organizations, which is selling the content into corporations. Right? So the books are great, the speaking is great, etc.. But the bread and butter of the business is educating managers and leaders and executives inside of an organization. So can you talk about sort of the business models there and how to best be of service to companies that are looking to train their managers and executives?

Ken Blanchard Well, we’ve been fortunate. You know, we have about 50 people who teach our content out around the world. And then we have a bunch of sales folks and all, and they work together. And people would go to one of our public seminars or read a book and they’ll say, we’re interested. And then they go in and they will do a pilot with people and share with them. So we do a lot of communication with people and in companies and it really is good that message that we get over 300 people in our company and an office in Toronto and London and quite a presence in the Far East. But it’s the real selling is face to face in terms of doing training in organizations because they want to talk to somebody and. Right. And see if they can adapt it, you know, so we have a product development department that tries to, you know, customized stuff as needed to be in and work with them. So it’s a it’s an exciting, fun, fun process.

Peter Winick One and you know, you mentioned pilot. I think oftentimes people don’t realize that large companies, even though they’re large and they’ve got tremendous budgets and all that, can be a bit risk averse, like to test things out so that you’re not going to go from 0 to 100 miles an hour in a heartbeat. You have to prove that not only you know that your content works, but does it work for me at this time in my company? So let’s try it out on 50 folks or a hundred folks or 500 folks, whatever, monitor how that works and then from there take it across the organization.

Ken Blanchard Yes, that that’s usually the way it happens, for sure.

Peter Winick Got it. Got it. So we start to wrap up here. What are 2 or 3 tips that you would give someone that’s that sort of in this space or diving into this space in the positive or the negative? Do more of this or do less of that or absolutely do this or never do that. Well, what might you say?

Ken Blanchard Well, first of all, if you if you’re a person who’s a good speaker and you want to get more speaking. Having a book is really powerful because somehow when you have a book, people think you’re brighter than you are. Probably. So the people I won’t tell if you have people, people who speak put a book out in terms of what your favorite speeches is. And it doesn’t have to be long. Put it in a way that people can understand and just be really available out there and train some other people. Because, you know, my wife and I started the company initially didn’t take this long to realize that if we had to do all the training, we would be exhausted. Right. And so you got to train and get people excited. And it’s I think if you love what you do, you’re never going to have to work a day in your life. And if you really love what you do and you exude that both in your speaking and your writing and your interactions with people, you’ll do fine because people love people who are amazing and excited. But it’s a lot of work to get to build a business from scratch. And you need some good sponsors. And I recommend to everybody you need clients before you start a business. You know, a lot of people have this idea. They open their doors and they get no clients, but they’ve hired staff and write, well, that kind of thing, you know, you need that many clients. We were very fortunate that we got a chance to meet the young president’s organization. This group, we had to become president before you were four years old and they kind of adopted us. And so we got a lot of distribution from them.

Peter Winick Well, that’s great. And then. And then build it out from there. Right. Anything that you would recommend folks avoid?

Ken Blanchard Well, I think I would avoid trying to put out too many things. Focus on a few things and get them out there and done that. You know, I’ve kind of broken that rule recently because I published too much. But in the beginning, don’t focus on your next book until you got the one that you put out there really publicized and out there and done your work on it.

Peter Winick Yeah, I think that’s a good point because a lot of authors and thought leaders, they get bored, right, because you start to write a book. Then there’s the publishing process and then it comes out by the time it’s out and getting some traction. It’s sort of 3 or 4 years old in your mind, so you’re bored. Even though the market isn’t is is clearly not bored and you move on before you should.

Ken Blanchard Do the things that I would have them. Well remember, put it in your house. An old friend of mine said this The production minus sales equals scrap. Yeah. So.

Peter Winick Right, Right.

Ken Blanchard You got to find somebody. That’s why I think getting feedback before you even publish it. So you got fans even before it comes out is a great way to go. So don’t publish it. Say, I wonder if anybody else like it. Test it.

Peter Winick Yeah. Yeah, you should know. So this has been great. I appreciate not only your body of work, I have been a long fan for many, many years, but your willingness to come on and share with us your journey, because it’s been remarkable. Thank you so much for spending the time with us today. I truly appreciate it.

Ken Blanchard Well, I appreciate it, Peter, and good luck to everybody out there. We need more communicators and helping people create organizations where people like to come to work. Because when you read the data, 60 to 70% of the people in America are disengaged. They don’t like their work. So that’s silly that we need to do things to help them.

Peter Winick Thank you. Good advice. Thank you so much, Ken. I appreciate it. To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at Thought Leadership Leverage dot com. To reach me directly. Feel free to email me at Peter at ThoughtLeadershipLeverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.