Building the Personal Brand is the Trojan Horse | Kait LeDonne | 709

The Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast is created by Peter Winick and Bill Sherman and produced by Thought Leadership Leverage.

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How personal brands become scalable thought leadership platforms.

This episode explores how clear messaging, audience focus, and real market pain turn personal expertise into scalable thought leadership.

What makes a thought leader’s message impossible to ignore?

In this episode, Peter Winick sits down with Kait LeDonne, a personal branding expert who helps aspiring thought leaders sharpen the message behind their work. Kait’s view is clear: without radically clear messaging, everything else becomes a house of cards. Content, books, speaking, social media, and sales all weaken when the core idea is fuzzy.

Kait breaks down why so many experts struggle to explain what they do. They go too broad. They try to serve everyone. They talk about problems in language their audience would never use. The result is technically accurate messaging that fails to move the market. Real thought leadership starts by knowing who you serve, what pain you solve, and how that pain sounds in the buyer’s own words. Peter and Kait explore why pain is not fearmongering. Used well, it is empathy. It says, “I see you.” It pulls someone out of the noise long enough to pay attention. In a crowded market, the right message does not just describe an idea. It creates recognition.

They also dig into the role of personal brand in thought leadership. Kait makes a powerful point: the personal brand can be the Trojan horse for the IP. The person creates trust. The idea earns traction. Then, at scale, the thought can become bigger than the thinker. That is when a platform starts becoming transferable, teachable, and commercially durable.

This conversation also looks at where thought leaders have permission to play. Trust is specific. An audience may follow you deeply in one lane, but not in every lane. The strongest platforms know their boundaries. They know what the market wants from them. They know when the founder should be the star, and when the IP needs to take center stage.

For authors, speakers, consultants, founders, and experts building a thought leadership business, this episode is a reminder that clarity is not cosmetic. It is strategy. The sharper the message, the stronger the platform. The stronger the platform, the easier it becomes to create revenue, scale impact, and build something that can outgrow the individual behind it.

Three Key Takeaways:

• Clear messaging comes first. Without a sharp message, content, books, speaking, and sales efforts become unstable.
• Pain creates relevance. Strong thought leadership names the audience’s real problem in language they would actually use.
• Personal brand should lead to scalable IP. The person builds trust, but the goal is for the idea to become teachable, transferable, and bigger than the individual.

For a deeper dive into personal branding and thought leadership, listen to our conversation with William Arruda. Like this episode, William’s conversation explores how clarity, consistency, and focus turn expertise into a recognizable brand. Both episodes look at what it takes to move from being known for what you do to being known for the value of your ideas. Together, these episodes give you a practical look at how to sharpen your message, build trust with the right audience, and create a personal brand that supports a scalable thought leadership platform.

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Transcript

Peter Winick And welcome, welcome, welcome this is Peter Winick. I’m the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage and you’re joining us on the podcast, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today my guest is Kait LeDonne and Kait is a personal branding expert for aspiring thought leaders, which obviously caught my attention, and she’s got lots of other sort of cool, interesting things going on that we’ll get into as well. So welcome aboard, Kait, how are you?

Kait LeDonne I’m good, Peter. Thanks for having me.

Peter Winick So what does a personal brand expert for aspiring thought leaders do? What is that? That’s one of those jobs that we didn’t look at when we were in college to say I want to, you know, on career day.

Kait LeDonne Yeah, if somebody ever told me I’d be making my money doing this, I just would have had a blank stare on my face. Yeah, well, you know, it really depends on the day of the week, but I’ll say it like this. 90% of what I do is helping people figure out their messaging, because if you do not have that down and it is not radically clear, everything else you build on top of that. Is just a house of cards.

Peter Winick So stay there a minute because it just seems so obvious. Right. But in practice, it’s not right when you look at some of these thought leaders are out there, aspiring followers are out there. You know, I look at it on a continuum, you know, on one side of the continuum, like here’s 87 things I’m really good at. And I’m like, okay, I’m really confused. I don’t know. And then the other it’s, they can’t get it down crisp and tight, so that it resonates with who they what they do, what the outcomes are, and what the benefits and why them are. So where do you start in your process working with folks?

Kait LeDonne Well, it’s OK. Now we’re going to double zoom into what the latter part of what you just said, who they are, what they do, who they help. There’s so many components of a good message. And it’s funny because when you look at a good message, you’re like, that is so simple and concise and clear. And within that, there are probably 10 different variables that are a trap door to go wrong. Number one, you just haven’t gotten the target audience of the message clarified well enough. Maybe you’re too broad. Maybe you are picking the wrong people that don’t have the right pain that you are really helping. And so usually I start with, okay, well, who do you want to serve? And if somebody says, “I mean, theoretically, everybody,” I’m like…

Peter Winick That’s my favorite worst answer.

Kait LeDonne Yes, yeah, it’s really it’s really great. And so that is the first trapdoor. The second trapdoor is understanding the real pain you’re trying to solve, because I heard a quote once and I really need to remember who I’m attributing this to, but it was such a great quote. And it is pain pushes until vision pulls. I think a lot of us aspiring thought leaders are thinking, all right, well, I’m just going to have this beautiful message and it’s going to call people forth into action. And I don’t want to be a fear monger. But the reality is that people are more. Act to act if they’re being negatively motivated and marketing tests prove this again and again and again, people are going to respond. Yeah.

Peter Winick Yes, stay there. So there’s fear-mongering is extreme, right? Hey, if you don’t hire me by tomorrow, the world will end, you’ll be bankrupt, homeless, and living in the streets. Like, that’s fear mongering. Yes. I think that’s one way to do it, not a way I would recommend, but I think the reality is, when we think about it, your first job as a marketer is to get people out of the trance, because I think we create these sort of visions and these platforms and such. In a quiet time in a thoughtful time and wherever I’m like, okay, well, when are we going to break through to somebody? Well, the reality is they’re standing at Starbucks, it’s really loud and noisy, and they’re skimming through tick tock. And you need something that’s going to grab their attention to at least get them to pause for two seconds and go huh, right? Like, that’s just the world we’re living in is it’s noisy, it is crowded, it is fast, it s this and that. Like, how do you shake people out a trance and there’s only a few things that really do that effectively.

Kait LeDonne Yes, yes. And I would say that pain is one of the better ones. Now, that doesn’t mean you lead with pain, but it does mean if you fundamentally don’t understand the pain you’re solving, any message you put on top of that just isn’t gonna click for somebody. Not in the way that, to your point, is really gonna shake them up and get them into action. So if you think about, you know, really sticky messages, we’ll go back to… Let’s take the one that’s in the zeitgeist now, like Mel Robbins let them. Yeah, sure. Theoretically, it’s very Peter’s eyes just went so wide. Theoretical, theoretically it’s very motivational, you know, let them acceptance stoicism. But underneath of that is the pain of you are feeling more and more out of control in a world that you desperately want to control. Right. And that’s why we hear it.

Peter Winick But what let them signals is, wow, that’s a great way that I could choose to release this whatever it is. My sister-in-law drives me nuts, my coworker spits sunflower, whatever it is. Yeah It’s sort of universal. So the way I sometimes like to think about it is one way to connect to a pain point or by properly connecting to a painful point, it shows empathy. It says, I see you. Like, hey, you’re an author. I work with a lot of authors. One of the pain points that authors have is they get really depressed 45 days after a book comes out because all this like, and they look and say, oh my God, no one’s articulated it in those words, but that’s exactly where I’m at. Right? So pain, I think, when it’s smart, is a signal of, I get it, been there, done that, I see you, I got you, let’s talk. Right?

Kait LeDonne That’s correct, that’s correct. So figuring out who you’re helping, the pain that they’re dealing with, but then, you know, and I’m sure you see this all the time, Peter, within the pain, there’s then a few other trap doors. Are you saying one thing in a way that they would never say it? So for example, I was working with someone, and she was saying, well, my target audience, they get really stuck on decision making and I need to talk about decisions. I’m like, is that what they’re saying at 3 a.m. To themselves? Are they saying, wow, I’m having a hard time making decisions. Is that really? How they’re identifying and relating to the pain, I would venture to say, no, that’s never something I say to myself at 3 a.m. Like, wow, I can’t make a decision. I would say, I’m plateaued, I’m not getting recognized at work, I am freezing on the spot in meetings, I am embarrassing, it’s only a matter of time before people find out I’m now qualified to do this. That’s what they’re saying to themselves

Peter Winick Yeah. Love it. So let’s go to a little bit meta here. So your expertise is this lane of expertise, right? And then you’re helping people do their thing. Talk about your path as a thought leader.

Kait LeDonne Um, like many great entrepreneurs, it was ass backwards and building the plane on the way down in so much that I was working in corporate in a marketing department and we were swallowing up companies left, right, and center. I mean, we were really on an M and a path. And when you are on that, you get a really quick training on how to fold brand stories into one another, because you have to get a whole new portfolio of clients to understand what the brand is. So I did that, but I wasn’t passionate about the service. No offense to anybody that’s in finance. And so I started taking that methodology and helping smaller businesses in and around Baltimore where I started my business. Well, when I was doing that and working on the corporate brand side of things, we found that the fastest way to get people to buy into a brand was putting their founders front and center. And one of my favorite examples of this was a quick growing. Bagel chain that had a very loyal following. They were in a college town. It was like the hangover spot. Everybody went there after to get the bagel and it, it was good, but they had these three young ready for this Italian brothers, not Jewish Italian brothers, like that was the first bagels. Yes. Ellen bagels, um, and they were really, really recognizable. And so we put their story as three cousins who came over from Italy. And took the art of Italian bread and really immerse themselves in the world of bagels in America and started this whole thing of like the Italian Brothers Bagel and people really bought into that. They were like, wow, I mean, we’re on board. And so within every other company I was really developing, naturally, the founder would take front and center. And it all came to a head when one of my clients who was an engineer and inventor capital, she was in her fifties, got a license for a marijuana dispensary. And we thought that was the most hilarious thing ever, just like a suburban mom peddling pot. Right. But it was a burgeoning industry and she thought I could, I can really, you know, become the voice of this industry and talk about where it’s going from a medically ethical standpoint. And so we wrote a book, they got on the Today Show, the book went well, the website crashed because of all the traffic and then they started headlining industries whereas two years ago, they would have been like, you shouldn’t be at these industries, you haven’t grown pot, you haven’t understood all of it. But when you get that… That pathway from a thought leadership perspective and you really find your lane and own it. And for them, it was, hey, if mom says it’s okay, it’s good. And we’re approaching this from the medical side of things. If you, you know, are dealing with having seizures, you should come look at this. Then it felt safe and it was a lane they could own and own confidently.

Peter Winick Well, and that’s interesting because the connection to a mom in their 50s versus a college kid getting weed from a dealer in a dark alley. That’s right. Made a little autobiographical for me back there. Back in the day, okay, there was a reason that someone’s parents might say, well, I don’t trust the product that kid’s giving you. I don’t trust the intention. I don’t trust the integrity of it. It’s, you know, like that’s different, right? I want to flip that a little bit because in a lot of the work that I do with thought leaders and authors and keynoters and all that, I’m sort of breaking what you’ve built from I just can’t put it saying, okay. This entire thing is about you. Your name’s on the cover of the book, your website is your domain name, whatever. And ultimately, for a thought leader, that’s good until it’s not. Meaning, hey, they built a great practice, but ultimately, if you think about sort of a maturity cycle of a thought leader’s business, right? It’s moving it from a practice to institutionalizing it and making the IP the star. So it’s like, it almost goes from, it’s the Kait show, to powered by Kait, and the dream should really be, who the hell’s Kait? Like, we’re not really there. That’s, no, and you know what? That’s damaging to the ego, because like, I’m so important, right. But it

Kait LeDonne Yes. And if somebody understands that three phase from the beginning, they’re all the better suited. Your personal brand is a Trojan horse for a successful exit of IP. So, you know, you get in there, everybody loves to follow a person. But then ultimately, let’s take the case of five dysfunctions of a team and Pat Luciani, because you and I have talked about that offline. I venture to say a lot of people who read that and know the five dysfunptions and the pyramid model that came from it, if I said. Well, I really love following Pat Lanchione on LinkedIn. They’d be like, great, who the hell is that? Exactly. But they know the five, the five lovers of pyramid. But that’s a compliment. Yes, and it’s the ultimate compliment because you have come up with an, you were the face, you were thought leader, then the thought became bigger than you, then the though became franchisable and instillable and you quietly exited. Great, you know what that means? Now you have capacity to bring another one up. I mean, you- Yeah. Well, now that I think are familiar with let them. Know that it was the three second rule or the five second rule before that.

Peter Winick Yeah, yep, yep.

Kait LeDonne And that’s good. I mean, exit the three-second rule that’s well enough known, separate from her, that people can instill that even if she didn’t come up with these things. And then she has room to now make her face and her voice and her podcast, the conduit of let them and then back out of that one. And you’re right. That’s the dream.

Peter Winick But go backwards. So go backward on Mel. So that’s on the consumer space, which is a bit different. She knows who her market is. Right and she’s really smart and really talented and I’m sure there are 10 other things that she could have come up with that are as good as insightful as let them but then she had to put it through a filter which a lot of thought leaders don’t say but what does my market really want right who is my market it’s mostly female of a certain age of a certain education of a certainly demographic financial you know ethnographic whatever oh this is It’s definitely first world problem, but if I position this in such a way, right? So is it a chicken and an egg, right, like was that designed to meet the audience? Then you say, oh, is it pain point they have? And then why the hell would they listen to me? Because if I were to flip those two and say, let them, which is, you know, runaway bestseller, seven million copies sold, whatever, and the author was Pat Lencioni? Like, you’d be like, what? Some old white dude that’s a business author wrote this. Why would I believe that now? So true, right? But so I think it’s where it comes from Yes, there is as well as a thought leader. I think that’s what happens with certain thought leaders. It’s like, wait a minute, the world has or a subset of the world that matters to you really, really deep trust in you for a thing, right? And that thing is really, really narrow, right. And when you go outside of that thing, you can go maybe one concentric circle a little bit out. But if all of a sudden, like, you know, again, not to beat up on palette and Sony, because that’s not the intent. He came out with a line of, you know, I don’t know, whatever, thousand thread count bedsheets. Huh? Like Egyptian cotton and Pat like where did where did that right? And you think about like her Martha Stewart did that because that makes sense, right? Like she’s someone that you allowed her work to be in your home and in your kitchen and you know your bedroom and you know, like whatever. So where do you have permission to play? Is it in the relationship space on the consumer side? Is that in leadership? Is a management? But you know going back to

on five dysfunctions in 20 years, I believe that will still be taught in 30 years in the marketplace. Why? Because it doesn’t matter if he’s dead at that point. That’s right. Or old or not didn’t grow up in social media. There’s 100 things that don’t matter. But it’s like, is it still relevant? Is It still ever great? Did you know we’re never going to cure these functions we’re always going to identify them in our teams and in our organizations. That’s right.

Kait LeDonne Yeah, absolutely. It’s also interesting because we’re talking about this from in the hypothetical example of pad there, you know, then launching Egyptian cotton sheets.

Peter Winick And by the way, if you do that, Kait, we want a royalty, you heard it.

Kait LeDonne Yeah, it started here. We’re on record. It’s interesting though, and I’m sure you see this a lot too, the inverse of that, right? So let’s take an example. Andy Dunn, the founder of Bonobos. He, you know, exited Bonobo quite well. Walmart acquired them, does not own them anymore, but that happened after his time. And then he is a serial entrepreneur. He’s an entrepreneur’s entrepreneur. Monica and Andy spin off all these other consumer product brands. And so then you have the lane of thought leadership where they had product companies and were known in that, but then want to own a cause on the other side of things. And so for Andy, that was burn rate and how I built a business and almost lost my mind and talking about mental illness and entrepreneurship. And so I think the, we, you and I probably trade in and deal with a lot of thought leaders who the brain is the tool and the idea is the thing, but it’s also interesting to me when you have. Consumer product good and more of that traditional like B2C company and you’re like, you know what? I’ve been growing this company. I’ve been behind this company for a while, but there’s something else that I have to say. And I love seeing the inverse of that too. And I’m delighted more and more of those. I’ll say like consumer product, good CEOs are stepping out and thinking about that too

Peter Winick Yeah, I think two things on that for thought leaders. Number one, many of them said to me when we really get into it, sort of I wrote the book I needed, I guess, right. And I need to read. And the fact that I wrote it, mission accomplished. Then it went on to be a success or whatever the case was. Right. And I think that’s really important. Right? Like, you know, and then the other is in many instances, it’s without saying it out loud, it’s their own stuff. Right, yes. It’s their own journey. It’s their own whatever it was. And they realize, get over yourself. You’re not that you’re not that unique, right? When you think about it, that’s your syndrome or you can go on and I name dozens of them for you. Well, I had that. I didn’t know it was a thing. Yes, I’ve created a model and frameworks and definitions and then realized because we didn’t talk about it out loud, a lot of people.

Kait LeDonne That’s right. And that’s it was so funny you say that because his book starts with him punching his mother-in-law in the face I mean complete manic breakdown

Peter Winick That’s a mother-in-law. Did she strike first? I don’t know. I don’t just say it.

Kait LeDonne Um, I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing him and she seems like a lovely lady. He was in the middle of a panic episode.

Peter Winick I think I just had the pleasure of punching my mother-in-law in the face.

Kait LeDonne Yeah, it’s a hell of a way to start a book, though. And, you know, miraculously, he’s still married and like all. Everybody has a great relationship there.

Peter Winick Oh, what’s a few restraining orders over Thanksgiving Day?

Kait LeDonne Yeah, it’s the hatchet is buried. But all that to say to your point, I’m sure when you’re in the middle of a manic episode, you’re locked up at Bellevue, which is what happened to him. You’re thinking this is the scarlet letter I can never talk about ever, ever, ever, every, ever. Like, if people found out about this, they wouldn’t invest. They wouldn’t buy blah, blah, and then you move far away enough. You’ve moved far enough away from it. And to your point, you realize over years in the more Confident and vulnerable you get like, oh wow. No, a lot of entrepreneurs have mental illness issues, and I have this story and I should share because it’s my stuff. I would have loved to have read a book that said hey, you’re not I mean

Peter Winick Well, and I’m an entrepreneur, I’m competitive. And it’s like, oh, you’re depressed, huh? I was institutionalized like, yeah, right. You know.

Kait LeDonne I’m always gonna be the best at what I do.

Peter Winick Yeah, right. I don’t I don t do anything halfway. Like I didn’t just, you know, not get out of bed one day. I was institutionalized, like, yeah, hold my beer.

Kait LeDonne Yeah, no, he literally said he thought he was like Batman or something. I don’t forget the particulars, but it was like full on mania. And he’s such a thoughtful and grounded and mindful person. But you’re you know what, Peter, you’re absolutely right. He realized this thing that felt so isolated to me and stigmatizing. It’s actually not just my dirty laundry. Like my version of it is really extreme. But a lot of entrepreneurs feel this way. See you next year. Spot on when you say it’s really those two things when you get a founder who then says you know what? I’m ready to start to beat this this drum and talk about this

Peter Winick Yeah, and you realize there’s a market for it. Well, this has been a lot of fun. This is I didn’t know. I never know where these things are going to go, but I certainly.

Kait LeDonne Punching mother-in-laws in the face, that if there’s one thing to take away from today, it’s if you wanna become a thought leader, start there.

Peter Winick Well, there’s the clip. You put it on your site first, and then we’ll follow up and promote it. I appreciate your time. Thanks, Kait. This was great.

Peter Winick To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter at thoughtledershipleverage.com, and please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.